Zed and the QQing about him on the Fourms of late

demonsnake420·Dec 3, 2014·5 votes·3,253 views

I am only a Silver scrub who only played a little bit of ranked before the season ended (I hit level 30 and finished provisionals only like a month or two before the season ended, I've played less than 30 games of soloque) but I consider myself a Mid main (when I can get it) and particularly I favor Zed. is my favorite champion (though the likes of . , and are also up there) so maybe I'm a bit too biased by why are there so many people on the fourms complaing about Zed? He is a highly mobile and deals a lot of damage, but that in general is what assassins do. His ult is really hard countered by the likes of and , as well as being hard countered by hard cc like most assassins are. Early armor is also good against him (though at least at my elo I rarely see people outside of the tank stacking much armor even if they are behind). Zed is all about positioning and timing; in fact Zed is really about punishing the mistakes of his opponent(s). If you are the carry and are out of position against an enemy Zed, then damn straight he's gonna nuke you; thats what he does. So I can get him being kinda annoying to play against but I feel out of assassins there are far worse offenders. is infamous for how seemingly toxic it is to play against (largely due to the infamous troll pole of his); Fizz has high mobility, good aoe, insane scaling, great damage, applies grievous wounds, and has some untargetability. is also infamous for how hard she snowballs and how easy it is (relatively) to succeed on her (similar arguments can go towards as well). However, at the end of the day, most of these champions can still be countered by just smart plays, smart itemization, and good teamwork (though Fizz, Yi, and Akali by their nature demand much more teamwork to focus and shut down than a Zed would by the nature of their kits). Maybe I'm just too biased or off basis with this, what do you guys think?

66 Comments

Learn 2 SwimDec 3, 20145 votes

Summary: majority of GD posters are trash crybabies. Trash players that whine all the time hate assassins.

The end.

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20142 votes

Summary: majority of GD posters are trash crybabies. Trash players that whine all the time hate assassins.

The end.

I can't exactly tell if you're mocking my post or agreeing with it. I probably wouldn't say that they are all trash (I mean I'm only Silver so I probably don't have room to judge) but it does seem a little childish to constantly go on the fourms just to complain about a specific champion one has problems with, especially if there is not even any real takes or advice on how to deal with the issue.

o9y9pcvBhdDec 3, 20143 votes

i think its mainly because of how safe of an assassin he is. Every mistake he makes he has the potential to get out. Look at talon, for example, who's only way is IN. if he doesn't kill who he targets , then talon is fked. Whereas Zed can press R and get out (exaggerating safety for emphasis). Though i do agree that ppl complain to much about

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20141 votes

i think its mainly because of how safe of an assassin he is. Every mistake he makes he has the potential to get out. Look at talon, for example, who's only way is IN. if he doesn't kill who he targets , then talon is fked. Whereas Zed can press R and get out (exaggerating safety for emphasis). Though i do agree that ppl complain to much about

I can understand that can make him kinda annoying but a lot of assassins have realatively easy escapes. If Fizz gets in over his head then he just presses e to troll pole over a wall, Akali can use her shroud to gain stealth and bonus movement speed to get out, Leblanc (despite being pretty weak overall atm) has the epitome of juking capability, Yi's ult gives him a speed steroid and invulnerability to slows, and Talon's ult gives him stealth so he can theoretically use it as an escape (though admittedly he is one of the more immobile/harder to escape with assassins). Such high mobility is just a trait of the assassin class (though its more obvious with some assassins then others). I do see your point however.

LankPantsDec 3, 20141 votes

You seem to greatly overestimate the power of stealth.

There are so many ways to revival stealth champs. ( item 3364 item 2043 item 3715 LeeSin to name a few) Anything that stops zed from jumping away also stops champs from casting their stealths.

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20141 votes

You seem to greatly overestimate the power of stealth.

There are so many ways to revival stealth champs. ( to name a few) Anything that stops zed from jumping away also stops champs from casting their stealths.

Fair enough, but being stealthed normally gives one enough time to delay the hard cc (and in the case of Akali she still gets the movement speed bonus from her shroud which she can use to escape even if she's revealed pending the other team doesn't have cc available). Though you are right that stealth is the weakest form of escape out of the assassins. However, Akali and Talon trade that for having insane and quick burst damage (or at least Talon did pre silence nerf, not sure if he still does).

LankPantsDec 3, 20141 votes

Akali's burst damage is far lower than Zed's unless she is stupidly fed, it's rare for Akali to one-shot a squishy with her Q-R-E-Gunblade combo. This means she has to hide in her shroud and use the movespeed to dodge AOE and CC. She does have a higher damage combo in her Q----R-Gunblade-E-Q-AA combo but that requires far more set-up than anything in Zed's kit or generally any other assassin. (I'm sure I forgot one feel free to call me out)

Zed on the other hand can easily go in with his ult, land an easy Blade-E-Q, then follow with a few autos if he feels safe. If at any point he feels threatened he can just press R and teleport out of the fight, in these situations Akali is often stuck in the middle of the team and forced to fight until she dies or the enemy team dies.

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20141 votes

Akali's burst damage is far lower than Zed's unless she is stupidly fed, it's rare for Akali to one-shot a squishy with her Q-R-E-Gunblade combo. This means she has to hide in her shroud and use the movespeed to dodge AOE and CC. She does have a higher damage combo in her Q----R-Gunblade-E-Q-AA combo but that requires far more set-up than anything in Zed's kit or generally any other assassin. (I'm sure I forgot one feel free to call me out)

Zed on the other hand can easily go in with his ult, land an easy Blade-E-Q, then follow with a few autos if he feels safe. If at any point he feels threatened he can just press R and teleport out of the fight, in these situations Akali is often stuck in the middle of the team and forced to fight until she dies or the enemy team dies.

Genereally speaking I find more often Akali bursting harder and quicker than most Zeds by the nature of how her ult works and thus gets more easily fed to follow and continue to stomp (though that could be just because of my elo or bad luck in matchmaking). I can't think of anything off the top of my head though that requires as much set up as Akali though with her shroud. Most assassins just look for that one opening and then they go all in on you and hope to get out, and I find thats the case from Zed to Talon to Fizz etc. Zed, like many assassins, is about positioning and timing, though I find that he best exemplifies the assassin's strength in punishing opponent's poor timing and/or positioning. I think that combined with the relative subtlety on his escape is where most of the frustration towards Zed comes from. Though fair point, I sincerely appreciate all the feedback and discussion going on in the thread.

o9y9pcvBhdDec 3, 20142 votes

Totally agree on the last part. Assassins should be able to punish any squishy out of position. I'm a little torn on if someone should be able to jump on a backline, kill them, and get out unscathed, which is also where i think a lot of the frustration comes from.

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20141 votes

Totally agree on the last part. Assassins should be able to punish any squishy out of position. I'm a little torn on if someone should be able to jump on a backline, kill them, and get out unscathed, which is also where i think a lot of the frustration comes from.

Fair enough and I totally understand that frustration. The way I look at is though is if I play Zed and I manage to ult in, nuke the enemy carry on the backline, and still get out unscathed then either a.) I had really good timing to go in and do that (such as that the other team was not grouped so close together to where they could immediately collapsed on me or their hard cc was on cd), b.) the enemy team wasn't prepared/bad against that sort of assassin playstyle, or c.) I got super fed that game and they literally just couldn't stop me.

LankPantsDec 3, 20141 votes

The thing is, you don't need to get away unscathed. If you get away on 1 HP you probably just won the fight for your team. You could potentially get CC'd and get away because of the way how CC's overlap in this game. Basically if you sit there spaming R during a CC you will buffer your jump into the sequence in-between the effects of two CC's. While Akali can do so with her shroud and Talon can do so with his ult you still get CC'd by the second CC after the animation, this is far less of an issue when you're 1k units away from what ever CC'd you.

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20141 votes

The thing is, you don't need to get away unscathed. If you get away on 1 HP you probably just won the fight for your team. You could potentially get CC'd and get away because of the way how CC's overlap in this game. Basically if you sit there spaming R during a CC you will buffer your jump into the sequence in-between the effects of two CC's. While Akali can do so with her shroud and Talon can do so with his ult you still get CC'd by the second CC after the animation, this is far less of an issue when you're 1k units away from what ever CC'd you.

True but I think its a lot more rare for the Zed to get away totally unscathed than most people think. Most of the time in teamfights when I do ult in on the carries in the back line I do get cc'ed and take a good amount of damage (especially if my team doesn't follow up in time). However, again, its a valid point you have there good sir. Like I said before in an earlier comment I could understand a small nerf to Zed in terms of adding a very short delay to when he can re-activate his ult to jump back to one of his shadows. The thing is Zed is already so dependent on timing that I'd be worried that it might hurt him too hard and give the other team too much reaction time.

o9y9pcvBhdDec 3, 20141 votes

i think a small nerd to his ratios would be fine, or at least enough to stop the QQ

LankPantsDec 3, 20142 votes

Personally I don't think Zed's teamfight is the right place to hit him with nerfs, I think it would be overall better to hit his lane phase, as his poke and ability to farm under pressure are a little too good for an assassin. The first thing I'd look at is his shadow's shuriken, at the moment it deals full damage unless Zed has already hit his shuriken meaning he has a powerful 1450 range skillshot to poke and zone with when ahead or farm with when behind. A solid way to nerf a frustrating part of Zed's kit without removing his teamfighting ability would be to make his shadow's shuriken always deal 50% of its damage while his always dealt the 100% (obviously with both still being reduced by hitting creeps)

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20141 votes

Personally I don't think Zed's teamfight is the right place to hit him with nerfs, I think it would be overall better to hit his lane phase, as his poke and ability to farm under pressure are a little too good for an assassin. The first thing I'd look at is his shadow's shuriken, at the moment it deals full damage unless Zed has already hit his shuriken meaning he has a powerful 1450 range skillshot to poke and zone with when ahead or farm with when behind. A solid way to nerf a frustrating part of Zed's kit without removing his teamfighting ability would be to make his shadow's shuriken always deal 50% of its damage while his always dealt the 100% (obviously with both still being reduced by hitting creeps)

I can see that as a viable nerf and could reduce some of the frustration laning against him. Though I'd be concerned that they might hurt him too much more in his bad match ups where during laning phase one needs the shruriken from the shadow to meaningfully harass his lane opponent. Maybe do something like "The shuriken from Zed's shadow deals 75% normal damage unless the target was also hit by Zed's standard shuriken, in which case the shadow's damage is further reduced to 50%". But maybe now I'm just being too protective of my favorite ninja. Good point you have there nonetheless though.

LankPantsDec 3, 20141 votes

The thing about Zed's "bad match-ups" are that they aren't really. Even his worst match-ups are 40-60, which compared to other assassins is really safe. Even in his worst match-ups he has huge kill pressure and the champs who do get better than 60-40's against him tend to be things like Malphite, and honestly most of the time taking Malph into mid lane is handicapping yourself anyway. Compare this to Akali, in my opinion Akali has one of the single worst lane match-ups in the game VS Syndra, at best this match-up is 15-85 and I am yet to see an Akali win this match-up, whether I'm playing her or not. And if you want to talk about top Akali she has around a 25-75 match-up against Ren.

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20141 votes

The thing about Zed's "bad match-ups" are that they aren't really. Even his worst match-ups are 40-60, which compared to other assassins is really safe. Even in his worst match-ups he has huge kill pressure and the champs who do get better than 60-40's against him tend to be things like Malphite, and honestly most of the time taking Malph into mid lane is handicapping yourself anyway. Compare this to Akali, in my opinion Akali has one of the single worst lane match-ups in the game VS Syndra, at best this match-up is 15-85 and I am yet to see an Akali win this match-up, whether I'm playing her or not. And if you want to talk about top Akali she has around a 25-75 match-up against Ren.

Fair enough. Who knows, maybe someone from Riot will check out this thread and look into some small rebalancing for not just Zed but a lot of other assassins as well (*cough Fizz cough cough Akali cough). Zed might be a little too safe in lane for an assassin but I don't think his safety should be totally gutted either though. Good points again sir and this has been a great discussion.

o9y9pcvBhdDec 3, 20141 votes

For future reference i should note that i don't feel Zed is overpowered. Also, the people that complain about him ARE bad and thats why he is "unstoppable" to them :D very good point about the need of good timing though

o9y9pcvBhdDec 3, 20142 votes

I think another issue is that zed's mobility is not as easily telegraphed as others. His is basically a blink or flash away where others are either dashes, that can be interrupted, or they simply have to walk out (talon)

AkeitoDec 3, 20141 votes

You seem to greatly overestimate the power of stealth.

There are so many ways to revival stealth champs. ( to name a few) Anything that stops zed from jumping away also stops champs from casting their stealths.

Fair enough, but being stealthed normally gives one enough time to delay the hard cc (and in the case of Akali she still gets the movement speed bonus from her shroud which she can use to escape even if she's revealed pending the other team doesn't have cc available). Though you are right that stealth is the weakest form of escape out of the assassins. However, Akali and Talon trade that for having insane and quick burst damage (or at least Talon did pre silence nerf, not sure if he still does).

Do you know that Zed can burst extremely hard with 3 shadow ? When people don't suspect you're in a bush, cast w behind you, ult them when they got into a bush, land a triple Q and E, it's just as hard as a Talon, Akali doesn't burst, she use stealth to wait for her skill to reset, which is a huge advantage in dual if there is no detection, also, insane spellvamp, but she doesn't burst. AP assassins always get an edge though, Fizz only need to throw a dfg, Q W ignite and bam, there goes the late game squishy, zhonya and QSS doesn't counter him.

Tannhäuser GateDec 3, 20143 votes

Im pretty new to this game, but i feel that a lot of people seem to forget that compared to other assassins zed can't 100-0 people like fizz can when his ult is down and people don't respect him when his ult is up

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20142 votes

Im pretty new to this game, but i feel that a lot of people seem to forget that compared to other assassins zed can't 100-0 people like fizz can when his ult is down and people don't respect him when his ult is up

This is true, I've lost track of times people disrespected me and my ult as Zed only for me to then nuke them with my ult combo. But other assassins like Fizz don't need their ult to nuke someone. If you have full health and a Zed without ult nukes you, then thats on your team because that can only mean Zed got pretty fed. I think Zed is a strong assassin but I don't think he's overpowered, I think he's in the prime balance state for what a viable assassin should be.

o9y9pcvBhdDec 3, 20141 votes

i feel Talon or Ahri is the most balanced assassin in the game. Talon is all in no out, where he has to kill the target or he fails and is punished for it. Ahri is very skill shot reliant in nature so i feel she has a good amount of counter play

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20142 votes

i feel Talon or Ahri is the most balanced assassin in the game. Talon is all in no out, where he has to kill the target or he fails and is punished for it. Ahri is very skill shot reliant in nature so i feel she has a good amount of counter play

I don't think Talon is since they nerfed his e and took his silence away since it was so critical most of the time for his all in burst combo. I'd agree with Ahri being one of the most balanced assassins due to all her skill shots. Zed's q is a straight up (and fairly narrow) skill shot, his e is damage in a circle around him and his shadow so if he does it in melee range he's still in danger and if his shadow does it then it takes good positioning of his W; his ult is the only 'point and click' ability in his kit but it places him in the heart of the enemy team. Though I can see and understand the argument of Ahri being more balanced than Zed. Fair point.

o9y9pcvBhdDec 3, 20142 votes

I respect you for accepting other people's opinions :D Also, idk if the removal of the silence was that hard of a nerf, considering he HAD to 100-0 anyway.Now he just has to do it a bit smarter and make sure that his enemies abilities are on cd's, but i understand why it hurts him

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20142 votes

I respect you for accepting other people's opinions :D Also, idk if the removal of the silence was that hard of a nerf, considering he HAD to 100-0 anyway.Now he just has to do it a bit smarter and make sure that his enemies abilities are on cd's, but i understand why it hurts him

Thanks for that, I always enjoy conversations about league like this and being overly salty or defensive doesn't really contribute anything to the conversation y'know? So I try to avoid coming off like said salty and/or defensive people. I also understand what you are saying about Talon, I just think it narrows his assassination window too much to remain competitive with other assassins such as Zed, Ahri, Fizz, Akali, etc.

o9y9pcvBhdDec 3, 20142 votes

Unfortunately it does : / TBH if any assassin deserves nerds its fizz. Low cd's, ridiculous ratios, just a monster

TavishDec 3, 20142 votes

Imo, he is good, but not OP. Go watch videos of old Gragas and old Nid. At least zed has to be close to assassinate someone :p

Drunk RummateDec 3, 20142 votes

what makes Zed so powerful is his laning

Fizz, Akali, and Yi all have really bad early games, especially pre6. This allows you to take advantage of a fairly long window of time to secure a big team advantage against them and then shut them down cooperatively.

Zed has one of the strongest lane phases in the game which allows him, more often than not, to secure a solokill (or more) in lane before taking his high mobility to roam with and snowball the rest of his team. His late game isn't as insane as Fizz, Yi, or Akali, but he is still unbeatable in a 1v1 by most champions despite this. His kit allows him to build full tank shred items without sacrificing his ability to 1 shot armorless squishy champs so he never falls off in that sense. You don't actually need his ultimate to deal damage in the later stages of the game due to his scaling and passive. The ult is mostly used for the extra shadow for damage and mobility.

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20142 votes

what makes Zed so powerful is his laning

Fizz, Akali, and Yi all have really bad early games, especially pre6. This allows you to take advantage of a fairly long window of time to secure a big team advantage against them and then shut them down cooperatively.

Zed has one of the strongest lane phases in the game which allows him, more often than not, to secure a solokill (or more) in lane before taking his high mobility to roam with and snowball the rest of his team. His late game isn't as insane as Fizz, Yi, or Akali, but he is still unbeatable in a 1v1 by most champions despite this. His kit allows him to build full tank shred items without sacrificing his ability to 1 shot armorless squishy champs so he never falls off in that sense. You don't actually need his ultimate to deal damage in the later stages of the game due to his scaling and passive. The ult is mostly used for the extra shadow for damage and mobility.

Zed does have a pretty strong laning phase and is consistently good for most of the match unlock other assassins true. I'd argue that Fizz doesn't have that weak of an early game based on the damage, power, and high potential of outplay that his base abilities give him. Akali does have a hardtime til she hits 6 like Kassadin, but once she hits that her power spike is much bigger than Zed's imo due to how (relatively) easy it makes her to snowball; especially if the enemy team isn't decently coordinated or designed specifically to shut her down (and the chances of either of those happening in random matching is highly unlikely outside of probably the highest of elos). Yi's early game is just ok, definitely not as weak as Akali's or Kassadin's but not as strong as Zed or Fizz; level 6 is a good power spike for him but late game is where I think Yi will always shine the brightest. Zed is good throughout the game, but in terms of raw damage and burst he gets outclassed by the likes of Katarinia, Fizz, Akali, etc. With Zed your trading that excessive burst and super high power spikes in for being consistently strong throughout the game. And I don't find it a bad thing that he is nigh unbeatable in most 1v1s because he's an assassin, that's kinda where they shine. In the late game you don't need his ult to deal good sustained damage, but still if you need to make a play to turn the game in your team's favor its probably gonna require you to ult and nuke one of the enemy carries. However, good points you have there.

SaiannaDec 3, 20141 votes

Zed is fun yet hard to learn champion. Problem is: his shadows make him little risk, huge reward. So what if he gets countered by x, y, z if he can disengage with ease and just look for other prey?

Don't take me wrong. I like Zed, but truth is: nerf hammer should either hit his overall damage or shadow escapes.

JunkοDec 3, 20141 votes

By that logic we should nerf LB, she is ranged and her main combo involves 2 targeted spells and she can escape fairly easily. She also isn't countered by Zhonya or QSS, at least not as hard as Zed is. Oh and her full combo has like a 40 sec cd early game with 0 CDR.

SaiannaDec 3, 20141 votes

Yeah.. I like LB, but it's true.

RatbertDec 4, 20141 votes

Lb is countered by banshees and pushing. Zhonyas actually counters her fairly hard, being an assassin and all. She has terrible wave clear without sacrificing damage and her escape. Lb's range really only helps her crappy early game and her full combo in lane can't really kill anyone unless they're below 75% and she hits everything.

JunkοDec 4, 20141 votes

Use 1 Q, wait 5 seconds, use your combo. Banshee counters how? Not to mention Banshees are never going to be built by ADCs and APCs she will be blowing up.

Zed has terrible wave clear without sacrificing damage or escape too. He can cs with autotos but risk being poked down by ranged spells.

And idk how Zhonya counters LB, maybe if you run a script that auto Zhonyas when LB uses all her abilities, otherwise you really don' have the chance to react to her burst (or most of your hp is gone by the time). Also armor doesn't help against LB either.

RatbertDec 6, 20141 votes

GL walking up to them and using q without dying horribly. Banshees is one of the most common mr items on adcs and sometimes built on apcs too. I don't know but usually I'm smart enough to change my build if I need to.

LB's waveclear takes both damage and escape, zed can use his shuriken ORRRRRRRRR his shadows. LB also actually runs out of resources very early game.

If you can't use that one second window where lb's q's are flying at you and her 0.5 second cast times, this game isn't for you.

JunkοDec 6, 20141 votes

W Q W. Congrats you just popped Banshee with 0 risk.

If you can't use that one second window where lb's q's are flying at you and her 0.5 second cast times, this game isn't for you.

So it's my fault my ping is 50 and not 3 because i don't live right on top of the location of their server?

RatbertDec 6, 20141 votes

0 risk? gee 700 range is now 0 risk. Cait could just turn around and crit you for more damage by the time you finish casting your q.

you'd need a ping of like 200 to not be able to I can zhonyas consistently at 80 ping. Your ping is much better than mine, yet I can zhonyas in time??

And besides, you don't even need to zhonyas her first spell cast because if it's a q or e, it'll do only half the total damage. If it's her w, you were way too close to lb and deserve to take 33% of your hp.

JunkοDec 7, 20141 votes

it's actually 1300 Range if she uses W+Q to take down Banshee. That's 3 times+100 the range of Flash

RatbertDec 7, 20141 votes

yes but cait can still shoot you while you q, which was my point. Lb's w is also a dash, meaning you can shoot her en route.

Kuroi86Dec 3, 20141 votes

I don't play Zed, but I've played against him a few times. I don't mind him, his damage isn't as insane as people think and he seems pretty mechanically intense. About the only thing that bugs me is that he just feels too safe. Idk, Zed mains, how do you guys feel about that?

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20141 votes

I don't play Zed, but I've played against him a few times. I don't mind him, his damage isn't as insane as people think and he seems pretty mechanically intense. About the only thing that bugs me is that he just feels too safe. Idk, Zed mains, how do you guys feel about that?

I can see how it can bug people but I don't honestly think he's much safer than say a Fizz or an Ahri is; I think its just that his escapes are more subtle. One moment Zed is ulting on your adc and then as your team collapses on him he goes back to where he started his ult and is out of immediate harms way; it probably feels more like you were cheated than a Yi who used his ult to turn and sprint away or a Fizz who troll poles over a wall. His shadow on his W has a pretty short range and most of the time Zed will be using it offensively rather than as an escape. But his shadows and his mobility with them are what make him unique and iconic; you really can't take them away without gutting him and leaving as something other than Zed.

NahuiDec 3, 20149 votes

I main Zed and it's tricky, it really is. I'm trying to stay as unbias on this as possible.

Zed is mechanically hard to play/master, and many people debate this. When you play against zed, people don't really appreciate all of the mechanics that go into the play. You will hear people just say "Oh, just hit r,q,e bork, AA,r win" but it isn't that simple. Zed is given such a safe time because there are items that completely counter him. Zhonyas is an example which is staple for AP mids which is who he tends to fight. When zed ults someone and they zhonya, 2.5s of the 3 s deathmark is wasted. Zed is now currently in the middle of everything with an invulnerable target. It would be ridiculous not to have his escape r because then zhonyas would be a no-counterplay item to anyone facing zed. QSS is an item largely ignored by lower elo people largely because it is relatively expensive but it can be a life saver. CC/peel, qss, zhonyas, exhaust, mobility - basically anything to keep zed from utilizing his death mark effectively is all a part of zed's counterplay.

Which brings me to safety. People talk about the shadows as if they're a get out of jail free card. They are not. Anyone that's ever played Zed would know that. I know it is EXTREMELY frustrating to see Zed ult you at tower when you have about 1/4 health left, e, swap shadows and hit you with a q for the kill and take all of one tower shot if that, however I can't tell you how many times I've done that exact play and had fucking xerath or ziggs insta-cc me resulting in both our deaths or just mine. The counter to Zed's shadow play is cc and predictability. You can see where his shadows are. There should be no surprise as to what he does. I've had people cry because I throw out a shadow for an e-q combo, then walk away and they just waltz up to the fucking thing to cs and die because I swapped to it.

It's true you can't stop zed from cs'ing. However, he is like leblanc in that matter. If he's using his spells to cs, he's not using them on you. And contrary to popular belief, zed's ult is not instant death. If zed hits level 6 and you're both still at full health, his ult won't 100-0 you.

Zed has safety, but his safety is extremely predictable and counterable. Zed shadowing away from a gank is the same as katarina shunpo-ing away to a ward placed on the ground. Same as leblanc's extreme juking potential, same as ziggs and his great cc-escapes.

The biggest issue with zed's safety is self inflicted actually. People react far too quickly, as ironic as that is. When zed ults you, he leaves a shadow from his departure point and appears wherever you are (minus teleport and recall). The biggest mistake I see is me ulting someone and before I appear, they flash, they dash, they jump, they something. All they did was burn an escape cd crucial to countering me and made my "Safe escape" all that much better. I think that people would have an easier time vs zed if they worked on their own timing. Zed has incredible mechanics that can allow him to do ridiculous things, however he can easily mess up in those mechanics and that doesn't mean he has to die for it as GD seems to want to believe, it just means he won't accomplish his goal. Remember, zed ulting your carry, fucking up, and r'ing back to safety is a win for you. He lost his ult, and you kept your life. Zed ulting your carry, succeeding, and getting out is him living up to his assassin concept. And as a zed main, I can tell you that peeling and cc works wonders. Something as simple as a draven knockback can ruin the whole thing and enough hard cc results in failure and death.

Oh, and a side note. Zed has remained about the same since his rework last october. The only reason people are crying now so much is because he's the last true assassin that hasn't been hit hard with nerfs. It isn't harder to fight zed now than it was before for any reason. It's just that there's nothing to compare his power to now so people just say nerf him too. Long live Syndra an Xerath!

demonsnake420Dec 3, 20142 votes

I main Zed and it's tricky, it really is. I'm trying to stay as unbias on this as possible.

Zed is mechanically hard to play/master, and many people debate this. When you play against zed, people don't really appreciate all of the mechanics that go into the play. You will hear people just say "Oh, just hit r,q,e bork, AA,r win" but it isn't that simple. Zed is given such a safe time because there are items that completely counter him. Zhonyas is an example which is staple for AP mids which is who he tends to fight. When zed ults someone and they zhonya, 2.5s of the 3 s deathmark is wasted. Zed is now currently in the middle of everything with an invulnerable target. It would be ridiculous not to have his escape r because then zhonyas would be a no-counterplay item to anyone facing zed. QSS is an item largely ignored by lower elo people largely because it is relatively expensive but it can be a life saver. CC/peel, qss, zhonyas, exhaust, mobility - basically anything to keep zed from utilizing his death mark effectively is all a part of zed's counterplay.

Which brings me to safety. People talk about the shadows as if they're a get out of jail free card. They are not. Anyone that's ever played Zed would know that. I know it is EXTREMELY frustrating to see Zed ult you at tower when you have about 1/4 health left, e, swap shadows and hit you with a q for the kill and take all of one tower shot if that, however I can't tell you how many times I've done that exact play and had fucking xerath or ziggs insta-cc me resulting in both our deaths or just mine. The counter to Zed's shadow play is cc and predictability. You can see where his shadows are. There should be no surprise as to what he does. I've had people cry because I throw out a shadow for an e-q combo, then walk away and they just waltz up to the fucking thing to cs and die because I swapped to it.

It's true you can't stop zed from cs'ing. However, he is like leblanc in that matter. If he's using his spells to cs, he's not using them on you. And contrary to popular belief, zed's ult is not instant death. If zed hits level 6 and you're both still at full health, his ult won't 100-0 you.

Zed has safety, but his safety is extremely predictable and counterable. Zed shadowing away from a gank is the same as katarina shunpo-ing away to a ward placed on the ground. Same as leblanc's extreme juking potential, same as ziggs and his great cc-escapes.

The biggest issue with zed's safety is self inflicted actually. People react far too quickly, as ironic as that is. When zed ults you, he leaves a shadow from his departure point and appears wherever you are (minus teleport and recall). The biggest mistake I see is me ulting someone and before I appear, they flash, they dash, they jump, they something. All they did was burn an escape cd crucial to countering me and made my "Safe escape" all that much better. I think that people would have an easier time vs zed if they worked on their own timing. Zed has incredible mechanics that can allow him to do ridiculous things, however he can easily mess up in those mechanics and that doesn't mean he has to die for it as GD seems to want to believe, it just means he won't accomplish his goal. Remember, zed ulting your carry, fucking up, and r'ing back to safety is a win for you. He lost his ult, and you kept your life. Zed ulting your carry, succeeding, and getting out is him living up to his assassin concept. And as a zed main, I can tell you that peeling and cc works wonders. Something as simple as a draven knockback can ruin the whole thing and enough hard cc results in failure and death.

Oh, and a side note. Zed has remained about the same since his rework last october. The only reason people are crying now so much is because he's the last true assassin that hasn't been hit hard with nerfs. It isn't harder to fight zed now than it was before for any reason. It's just that there's nothing to compare his power to now so people just say nerf him too. Long live Syndra an Xerath!

And an upvote for you good sir! Really good post there. Its nice to hear the opinion of another Zed main on the matter. I feel you explained a lot of the issue and intricacies of Zed's ult better than I, this lowly silver scrub, did. I do understand his mobility is frustrating but you are right that its predictable if you just pay attention to his shadows; you may not know exactly when Zed is going to switch places with his shadow but you can generally tell where he will go before he starts his escape. CC, like many assassins, does do wonders to shut him down. And you are so right about people underplaying the mechanical skill that is required to succeed on Zed; he is one of those satisfying assassins to play and how well you do with him will always come down to your own personal skill. Though I can see the argument some people make that his laning phase is at least just a tad to safe in relation to how strong he is in so many areas (if played correctly); I would understand a look at or a SLIGHT nerf to his laning phase to attempt to balance him out. However, I would still maintain that Zed is currently one of the best balanced assassins in the game at the moment imo. I'm surprised how much qqing there is about assassins though in this adc dominant meta for its strong and viable assassins who provide a natural counter to adcs by, y'know, assassinating them.

NahuiDec 3, 20143 votes

His weakness isn't supposed to be his early, mid, or late game. It's that items counter him so hard as well as many summoners and cc. Now cc counters everyone, but for some champs it is much worse like fiora who can't lifesteal off AA to survive, zed who can't deal dmg to kill, or kat who can't ult.

People tend to look at weaknesses as stages of the game now. If it's strong here,has to be weak there. League isn't a rock paper scissors game. All champs have weaknesses, but those weaknesses don't have to be in time or phases of the game.He farms safely early, does great damage mid, and does amazing split push and dmg late. However his counters are simple items anyone can build and some coordination/thinking.

DaishøDec 4, 20142 votes

^------- i love zed mains that actually know what they are saying. So many times, when i play zed, my team always asks me "how do get rid of zed's ult. if im ad i cant get zhoynas." me:"get a quick silver sash team:"a whhata what whataa?" me: facepalm

NahuiDec 9, 20141 votes

The problem people have with qss is that "it doesn't give you correct stats vs zed". First of all, that's wrong. It mitigates his passive, and Bork passive and active which chunk very hard. But it's true, it does nothing vs the AD. Well tough shit. There is already one anti zed item in the game, having an anti zed item for every role in the game is a ridiculous concept. The adc is supposed to die to zed. It's not fair for an adc to beat an assassin 1 on 1. The adc should be peeled for and such. Having an item that gave stats vs zed and cleansed his ult would just be op.

Long story short, build qss into mercurial. It's still 80 AD, yes he can still blow you the fuck up, however he has to finish you off, he can't ult you and just jump back to safety after a few hits, which should get him killed if he commits that hard. Oh and the minor speed boost you get on activation is sexy too. Just don't downplay his passive and Bork. Can't say how many times those have gotten me the kill.

JunkοDec 3, 20142 votes

This, i'm gonna save this somewhere because this is exactly what i think about Zed and i main him too

NahuiDec 4, 20142 votes

No problem, happy to enlighten!

Watch9Dec 3, 20142 votes

Zed is not as safe as he looks. During laning phase, his w is the only thing that will either kill Zed or save him. If he wastes his W just to poke someone, you might as well say his ultimate is the next best thing to escape with during a gank.