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Ever check how much gold Spellthief's procs give over an entire game?

Von Brohenheim·2/13/2019, 11:26:02 PM·1 votes·1,027 views

I brought this up last time support items were an issue. I'm ready to have it ignored again.

It is absolutely insane to me that this item item 3098 exists, and does not turn off at 500g. Simply by picking a champion with good range and constantly hitting people with spells or autos at every opportunity frequently gives me 3rd highest gold on the team, after ADC and the better of the two solo laners. If the ADC is bad, I can frequently have 2nd most gold.

As long as you take advantage of opportunities to hit people and aim well, it's relatively easy to farm up a Luden's, or any other mage item. Without taking farm, but using item 3098 I am 5 minutes behind a competent mid laner in items. That's absurd. They have to CS, they can be ganked from multiple angles, and they still have to poke, ward, and potentially roam like I do. What's their reward for all that extra effort? A head start on their power spikes? What a joke.

On top of that, once the item is stacked, I can take unattended farm. If someone is feeding and I'm not, I'll just eat the wave. It's not like the item punishes me once I have 500 stacks. Unlike the other support items, my waveclear scales off item 3098 so I become just that much better at ramping up.

Riot acknowledges the problem with damage in the game. A lot of ADCs just got crit items reverted, but there's still immobile mages all over bot lane. They're supports. They can't go mid, because they'll get destroyed by all the assassins running around. Everything mage mid either has mobility Ahri Neeko Zoe spammable bullying Cassiopeia Syndra or point-and-click hard CC Lissandra Malzahar TwistedFate . Skillshot reliant immobile champions that would otherwise be high on Riot's priority list for buffs and minor reworks are instead carpetbagging as anti-supports, like Malzahar did after his MYMU rework. They don't actually support, they just deny the enemy ADC farm with overwhelming flat damage, and brute force their way through shields and tank supports. This is unhealthy and unfun, and it's all because Spellthief's enables them to farm up the items they'd have anyway.

Many of them are fun or interesting champions, that are now only seen as oppressive and hated. Spellthief's is keeping them from getting fixed, because can you imagine what would happen if Brand Xerath Zyra weren't ridiculously easy to gank, had outplay potential, didn't have bug-ridden plants, but still got to build items like a solo laner with weak CS?

Riot needs to change or remove this item, then go back and fix these champs so they can go back mid, or are actual supports.

18 Comments

GinoSoldier2/13/2019, 11:47:59 PM2 votes

I highly disagree that the support role should be gold starved or even weaker than the "carry" roles. As far as i'm concerned, the only difference between an enchanter and a mage should be that the enchanter's kit is 25/75 offense/defense while a mage should be 75/25 offense/defense, with the enchanter's kit having a focus on aiding allies. Similar logic can easily be applied to tanks.

Similarly I believe that mage and enchanter items should have the very similar costs and power, but mage items give personal benefits while enchanter's benefit the team AND ARE NOT STACKABLE. Similar logic with Tank items.

That way, the person who picks support doesn't feel like a gimped version of a toplaner, jungle or midlaner. That way, every single one of the five players has the same carry potential. That way, a midlaner can pick an enchanter and the support can pick a mage if that's what they want to play, or if that's what benefits the team. That way, a midlane mage who ends up being the only AP on the team can pick up a defensive option for allies if needed, and an enchanter who's in the same situation can easily pick up some damage to compensate as well. Similar logic with tanks.

If gold generation items become an issue across all lanes, restrict them to the support role like jungle items. If they feel like "muh free gold no skilz" to people, maybe we can make more skill-reliant items.

And to be perfectly honest, i'm all for buffing trinkets and finally killing off the entire "support has to ward" meme.

Saezio2/13/2019, 11:57:50 PM1 votes

Support doesn't mean they should be the poor relative.

Supports play the game just as much as their mid does.

Do you even main support? these sound like claims from someone that just abused mage supports(brand fiddle zyra xerath whichever is best at time) and draws conclusions from that.

How many games with enchanter supports have you played?

Moonscourge2/14/2019, 12:38:18 AM1 votes

All items give around the same gold. Frostfang is good for stomps however because it also gives you damage + combat stats.

Von Brohenheim2/14/2019, 12:41:09 AM1 votes

I was expecting disagreement would be about Velkoz true damage or Zyra plants, or that it was the champs not the item.

Instead it's complaints that nerfing Spellthief's somehow impacts anyone taking Relic or Coin, which don't give anywhere near as much gold. If your ability to play support is dictated by this item, and not your skill at any particular champion or support in general, that just proves my point.

I feel like the social worker trying to pry crack pipes out of addicts' hands. You won't starve, you'll just need to actually work for your paycheck.