Ornn is back to seeing pro play while performing horribly in soloQ.

Uniia·Apr 4, 2019·15 votes·9,524 views

His rework tried to help him outside of organized play but overall that goal has failed pretty hard. Ornn still rewards teamplay way too much and thus can be a good pro play pick despite being completely awful in soloQ. He is dangerously close to the worst state he was even in when he had 45% winrate while being meta in pro play.

Reducing the CC on his ult and giving him more lategame damage were good changes but those are largely undermined by his new items giving more power to allies. Tanks are inherently supportive and better in organized play and adding an extra mechanic that sacrifices his individual power to buff allies just rewards pro play way too much relative to soloQ.

Ornn needs to be way less useful for his team and much stronger alone to ever be a reasonable soloQ champ without breaking pro play. Its not like he is some really hard to play champ that deserves to have way under 50% winrate to be balanced in soloQ.

17 Comments

InfernapeApr 4, 20197 votes

Please no.

He's going to get his goat/ram ass nerfed yet again.

heroikcApr 4, 20195 votes

I'm surprised that someone considered this angle to Ornn. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

IP MasquerenaApr 5, 20192 votes

Well, I would try to look at him from another angle but my car has only half a tank of gas.

heroikcApr 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Well, I would try to look at him from another angle but my car has only half a tank of gas.

OK, removing the shield on his W made trades and escapes more difficult, the upgrade passive has become rather unwieldy, and it's all because people either a.) don't use one of his many counters to the fullest or b.) don't understand the concept of staying out of his AoE to minimize damage at the time.

IP MasquerenaApr 5, 20194 votes

facepalm

That was a joke on him being fat.

heroikcApr 5, 20192 votes

{quoted}

facepalm

That was a joke on him being fat.

[zombie-brand-facepalm] WELP, guess this was my "I'm a moron" moment for the day.

XJ99999999999999Apr 4, 20193 votes

people don't know how to play tanks. they only know how to play bruisers who all in.

Tanks can sit back and farm pretty safe and not die to ganks due to their tools. People try to all in with immobile tanks and feed. He does a lot of damage so just wait for a mistake/gank while farming and you'll win game.

I'd kill for an Ornn on my team, as I'd love the upgraded item to have some better rounded stats.

People are just too used to going 1 for 1 and doing risky plays 24/7 instead of just farming and waiting for a good time to go in and do something. Going 1 for 1 or 2 for 2 tends to not be worth it and just causes randomness in the game and makes it feel like a huge dice roll.

Pals Before GalsApr 5, 20193 votes

Can we go the Urgot route and bring his shield back to his E? That way it rewards Ornn players for actually landing the knockup and not just pressing W in-lane and get a free trade.

Iota ThetaApr 5, 20193 votes

Honestly, as a big Ornn enthusiast, my favorite champ to play as, I’d prefer they not keep going the route they were going with cutting his CC and buffing his damage. I’m of the mindset that making tanks more damage dealing like fighters will just blur the lines more.

Tanks, by nature in online games, are team players. I personally see nothing wrong if fighters are better solo while tanks are better in coordinated. That’s really how it should be based on their natures. Those committed to playing tanks will learn to make them work in solo queue. In fact, way back when (pre %max health damage breath), Ornn mains who committed to learning how he plays as a tank could get to where they carried >50% winrates.

The nature of tanking as a team oriented role should not be diminished, Even if it means having a tougher time solo, because that’s what they are. It’s similar to tanks being good in raids in PvE, but not so great when on their own. It’s how it should be. They do not need to become fighters that don’t build damage.

My changes:

put his shield on E;

Change %max health damage on his W back to %current health, this reduces kill pressure just from W, and the damage was the big issue beforehand when Riot called it an “I win” button, not the shield;

reduce Brittle pops, have them focus more on the tenacity reduction over the damage.

Sire HippingtonApr 5, 20193 votes

Reducing the CC on his ult and giving him more lategame damage were good changes

I really have to disagree here. This change did not help at all at makeing him less pro more solo. For soloQ, longer CCtimes on you're hardengage are extremly valuable, as it means you're allies get a bigger window for followup. In proplay, coordination is so high that they can capitalize even on a short window, so the lower CC duration isn't all that bad, it's still a relatively save go-button that now rewards allied CC-followup with more damage. In solo Q, more often than not the gutted CC means you're allies won't react fast enough to follow up on the engage befor their oponents can react, and the higher damage is not that relevant since his kit is so clunky that it's really hard to acces that damage without the help of your teammates. Also, a tank really does not need to potentially deal 77.5% maxhealth in one rotation, neither in soloQ nor in proplay...

Moody PApr 4, 20192 votes

Doesn't he have a 48% or something in solo?

For a champion who is a strong priority in pro that is a plenty respectable performance.

The only thing separating Ornn from other generic tank kits is the fact that he has these supportive features at all.

UniiaApr 4, 20198 votes

Depends on stat site. Rioter has said that U.GG is closest to their internal data and analysis has showed that Lolalytics inflates the winrates of all champions because of their data collection methods. Lolalytics has highest winrate with 47,88 and U.GG the lowest as 45,6. OP.GG is at 46,56. Overall it looks like he is incredibly weak in soloQ and Ornn is definitely not a champion that is balanced in soloQ with significantly below 50% winrate as its not like he is incredibly hard to play.

I woudlnt say that ornn is a priority pick in pro but the main issue is that being so much better in pro play dooms Ornn into being way too bad in soloQ. Ornn used to be the least team reliant tank in the game so changing him into a supportive tank who sucks in soloQ feels really bad. He has fun and unique kit with incredibly teamplay ult so the last thing he needed is more teamplay rewards at the cost of individual power. Being a reasonable soloQ champ would be so much more fun than making your teammates have more stats while being weak in other ways.

Snowman ArcApr 5, 20191 votes

Ornn is just a gold generating bot for his team at this point (or the enemy team, if you are a bad player). I never really played much Ornn, but I liked the more fighting style with the shield before he got "reworked". You had clear timings when you could go in and when you could be abused. Now, you just try to waveclear with clunky AAs, you can't really duel anyone who has any resemblance of damage, and at late game, you are just an ult bot, just like Malphite.

Myren QuiddleApr 5, 20191 votes

About the changes: they removed his W shield and made it unstoppable. With Urgot they removed his W shield and switched it to his E. Couldn't we have Ornn's shield back on his E then? W unstoppable + E shield might be too strong but, I'd love to see the shield back.

QuephaApr 5, 20191 votes

That's perfectly fine with me, his heyday in solo queue was too toxic for too long. Living Forge as a passive has the potential to be extremely toxic to the game if Ornn ever gets a lead so he probably should simply never have the tools to succeed on his own.