Fizz's Q is overnerfed.

Fizz is not Fish·1/28/2015, 3:23:32 AM·2 votes·1,360 views

I just love this guy but cant play him well.

I am sure he need some nerf. But..that Q is overnerfed now.

It will miss and deal 0 damage if enemy move out of range (Dash or Blink ability, and Flash). It has a CD of 10/9/8/7/6.

It can be called a normal ability only when he get LB: Deal (109)+(70+0.3AP)+(109*0.75+0.5AP)=261+0.8AP damage only at lv18 with a 3000G item 3100 .

261+0.8AP is a normal damage for a single-target-ability. But why he must build LB to get the damage?

How can it be considered to be balanced?

They need to reduce its CD at least, such as 4s CD at rank 5.

Or can we remove item 3100 and give him Q a normal damage?

11 Comments

SouL1ess1/28/2015, 3:30:52 AM2 votes

I would just wait and see if Riot does anything about it. They are probably considering that if Veigar works fine with 3 offense spells and with 0.6, 1.0, and 1.2 AP ratios on the three, Fizz will be fine if his ult's damage amplification is counted in. Unlikely that Riot will do anything, but still.

The "miss if moved out of range" part is more worrisome. I think Riot is balancing every assassin around Zed, that you can escape the assassin's initial onslaught (using dash to negate some damage) if you dash/blink right after they engage. However it doesn't hurt Zed as much if the target escapes initially than Talon/Fizz.

And urchin strike was always an underwhelming spell until you get Lichbane since release. Think Jax W. Not that effective of a stand-alone skill.

SmokinSickStyle1/28/2015, 3:39:39 AM1 votes

80% AP ratio is not a normal targetted spell, not on mobile assassins that have aoe high scaling damage, escape, invlunerability, slow on a very low cooldown.

Be glad they didn't touch the only ability that needs changes, his so called trollpole.

I repeat this to infinity, no defensive spell should have that much utility on top of the huge ass aoe damage.

So to reply to your question, Urchin strike DEFINITELY doesn't need buff seeing as it also applies on hit effects.

He has now free DFG on his ult for 6 seconds on the target that catches the fish, now he's not gonna throw in as he pleases, do a fuckton of aoe damage and E-E+W+Q your carry in less than a second without you not being able to actually do anything about it seeing how he's untargettable 70% of the teamfight lategame.

Now you need a full combo to kill someone.

Sailor Mint1/28/2015, 6:37:33 AM1 votes

Don't forget that like all spells that proc on-hit effects Urchin Strike also deals 1.0AD.

Talinis1/28/2015, 9:24:35 AM1 votes

Fizz's revamped Q really needs more damage. Fizz's CDs are too high, essentially, forcing him to take 40% cdr, for his AP ratios to be so low. Most mages have a lower CD spammable spell or have the safety of range to wait for CDS. Fizz does not have that luxury. The problem with comparing him to veigar is A. Veigar's ultimate is point and click. B. It's ranged, and C. It can basically 1 shot an AP by itself. Veigar has an aoe area stun. Fizz has mobility because he can't do damage if he isn't in melee, unlike every other assassin in the game that at least has poke from range from at least one ability, esp Zed. Putting the damage on the shark was a stupid move. Fizz's ult is like Zed's ult. You know how everyone says, oh it's balanced because it can be countered by zhonya's or QSS. Well shit, can't Shark be countered by Zhonyas or QSS? Why yes, yes it can. Or, since it's a skill shot, you can dodge by flashing, or by dashing or by simply dodging it. And unlike Zed's ult that puts you right next to the enemy, Fizz still has to reach his target in order to make use of it. Janna would like to have a word with you about reaching anybody. And good luck getting that shark on the ADC. The enemy tank eats fish for breakfast. And you can't use your E for damage or you have no escape, unlike our friendly neighborhood Zed who can just press R and return to whence he came.

But it's totally cool, we got AD bruiser and on hit Fizz. They also buffed bruiser fizz pretty nicely. The build that WILL land the shark is AD, since he'll be in melee AA'ing his heart out, not really needing the fish besides as a catch and slow tool or initiate. That extra damage will work nicely for him. And that W + Bortk Synergy means each AA from Fizz is going to do 8% max health pre mitigation, half physical, half magical. AD bruiser Fizz Q will do the same levels of burst as the now nerfed AP fizz, as Q has a 1.0 scaling on AD since it applies on hit effects and normal damage (essentially it's an AA). Since E is not needed for damage, he can now save it every time for a dodge, slow, gap opener or closer. He's at least as big a lane bully as his old AP self, but this time, not needing the E for damage and with sustain through lifesteal along with stronger AA's. Out of lane, Fizz will be in the front lines, causing havoc as a bruiser with still enough burst from his combo (which will include tri-force and Botrk) to nuke the ADC back to the fountain. Sit and soak damage and 1 v 3 and escape with E when things get rough? That's the new Fizz and it's been working out pretty well so far, in the top lane, in the jungle, or even in mid. It's essentially got more counterplay since you won't just be instant bursting down people, meaning people can now react and fight back, which was what Riot was trying to fix. But this isn't the fizz you are going to be able to beat in a fight lol.

The changes actually made Fizz less of an assassin and more of his secondary role, a fighter as his current AP build has too many weaknesses for it to be viable much above a 40ish% win rate higher up.