When people buy Sunfire Cape as the legitimate answer to "Buy Armor". There is a TL;DR

øHaruø··4 votes·671 views

http://imgur.com/NPccA22.gif

I really do.

Let's take this instance, Maoki vs Tryndamere

Maokai ->item 3027 ROA first? No prob bro, just remember to go tanky! Maokai ->item 3152 Protobelt second? Ah, we have time, it's k. Maokai ->item 3068 Please, leave. item 3110 -> 2700 gold item 3143 -> 2900 gold item 3068 -> 2900 gold

Assuming Maoki has no HP Runes, let's go with the build thus far and regular +1 armor seals. Let's say lv 15. (Fully stacked ROA = 500 HP + Protobelt = 300 HP + Lv 15 Maoki = 1800 HP) = 2600 HP, pretty decent HP for a tank at level 15. And around 83 armor from scaling and 9 from runes.

So now you've decided to build armor, about time.

  1. You've built a Sunfire cape.

(item 1029 = 300 Gold + item 1031 = (500g) 800 Gold) + (item 1028 = 400 Gold + item 3751 (700g) 1100 Gold)

item 3068 = (1000g) 2900 Gold

You've spent 2900 gold on a 425 HP item with 60 Armor which deals 26 magic damage per second at lv 15. Putting your HP at 3025 and your armor at around 152.

  1. You've built a Randuin's Omen (item 1029 x 2 = 600 Gold) + item 3082 (400g) 1100 Gold)

(item 1028 x 2 = 800 Gold)

item 3143 = (1100g) 2900 Gold

You've spent 2900 gold on a 350 HP item with 60 Armor which reduces attack speed by 15% for 1 second off basic attacks and reduces critical strike damage from basic attacks by 20%. Putting your HP at 2950 and your armor at 152.

  1. You've built a Frozen Heart (item 1029 x 2 = 600 Gold) + item 3082 (400g) 1100 Gold)

(item 1029 = 300 Gold + item 1027 350 Gold) + item 3024 (350g) 1000 Gold =item 3110 (700g) 2700 Gold

You've spent 2700 gold on a 90 Armor, 400 Mana, 20% CDR which reduces nearby enemies' attack speed by 15%. Leaving your HP at 2600 HP, armor at 182.

And you sit there, and you tell yourself, Sunfire is the best option. You went and built item 3068 for 2900 gold but you just look like a damn spark plug, scaring the minions.

However, if you had built Frozen Heart or Randuins, you'd be set. Tryndamere and champions such as him, (Fiora Jax Irelia MasterYi ) utilizes or depends on one of few things. Attack speed, Damage, Crit. But you're a spark plug, instead of buying proper armor items that also reduces their attack speed or reduces their crit damage. Randuins, the same amount of gold as Sunfire and much more efficient. You built Sunfire vs Trynda, his attack speed, crit, and damage will not be deterred as much as it would be had you bought a Randuins or Frozen Heart.

TL;DR : Know which items to buy.

14 Comments

Fraggleroc2 votes

Maybe it was a late decision to splitpush? Sunfire helps in splitpushing

Erockandroll2 votes

{quoted}

Maybe it was a late decision to splitpush? Sunfire helps in splitpushing

I'd be a little iffy about that decision. Even though Sunfires minion push remained intact, you don't really have any extra effect against towers.

If I wanted split push on a Tank, I would have gone with portal.

øHaruø2 votes

{quoted}

Maybe it was a late decision to splitpush? Sunfire helps in splitpushing

It does but not everyone should be split pushing.

Hexs Fortune2 votes

item 3068 more effective health thanitem 3110

øHaruø1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPTG4qK6,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-06-03T12:11:37.297+0000)

item 3068 more effective health thanitem 3110

Health means next to nothing when you have no armor. Put it this way in simple terms 3k HP with 100 Armor vs someone with 250 AD. He deals 150 damage to you, every auto attack and let's say trynda, 150 damage every 1 second or 0.8 seconds. However with 2.5k HP with 200 Armor along with attack speed reduction, it's now 50 every 1.5 - 2 seconds.

Hexs Fortune2 votes

{quoted}

Health means next to nothing when you have no armor. Put it this way in simple terms 3k HP with 100 Armor vs someone with 250 AD. He deals 150 damage to you, every auto attack and let's say trynda, 150 damage every 1 second or 0.8 seconds. However with 2.5k HP with 200 Armor along with attack speed reduction, it's now 50 every 1.5 - 2 seconds.

im pretty sure armor negates attack damage as a percentage, not as a flat reduction

Itsbeghdev1 votes

Flat reduction exists only on Amumu's Tantrum passive, in fact, since it was removed from Doran's Shield. Armor plus 100 divided by 100 times your actual health is your effective health against physical damage (not for %max/%current/%missing calculations to clarify). So at 100 armor, you'd not take 150 damage, you'd take 175 damage--since you have effectively double health against physical damage, the damage is halved. At 200 armor, you'd take ~83.33 damage, since you effectively have triple health, you take 1/3 the damage.

Itsbeghdev1 votes

Effective health is the amount of damage that can be taken of a type, against physical damage it is total health times (total armor + 100)/100, against magic substitute mr for armor.

Reaper Soraka1 votes

What if the enemy auto-attacks you~~ 20%~~ 15% slower?

øHaruø2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Soraka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPTG4qK6,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2017-06-03T16:12:49.517+0000)

What if the enemy auto-attacks you~~ 20%~~ 15% slower?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

But attacking slower will be vastly different than their regular attack speed. Vastly is a bit over exaggerated but yes.

Reaper Soraka2 votes

Against auto attackers frozen heart doesn't directly increase your effective health, but it does increase the duration which you will live under attack. Isn't that the concept of 'effective health'?

So I guess my question would be: how much better eHP is the cape over FH against, lets say a Tryndamere with 200 damage autos and attacks 1/sec? At what damage/attacks per second would 15% slow and the extra armor be better against Trynd?

øHaruø2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Soraka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPTG4qK6,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-04T00:37:52.224+0000)

Against auto attackers frozen heart doesn't directly increase your effective health, but it does increase the duration which you will live under attack. Isn't that the concept of 'effective health'?

This is the point of my post, where the player has to build to suit. A lot of people just build sunfire, because armor and HP it's good or for some splitting power or it's just in the recommended item list.

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Soraka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPTG4qK6,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-04T00:37:52.224+0000)

So I guess my question would be: how much better eHP is the cape over FH against, lets say a Tryndamere with 200 damage autos and attacks 1/sec? At what damage/attacks per second would 15% slow and the extra armor be better against Trynd?

Let's use Sion. Sion with Sunfire vs Tryndamere with 200 Dmg Autos and 1 attack per second.

Not taking skill into the equation and let's say, Sion has 3k HP with a good amount of armor let's say, 90 armor Tryndamere would be able to kill Sion in, 15-20 seconds or less especially wit help of his Crits.

Using HP, reduction of crit and attack speed, you could live longer, I won't say anything on kill potential because the conversation is about surviving. You would survive longer than you would with Sunfire, and you even have Randuin's active which slows. Frozen heart in this case, offering no HP let's say sets Sion back to 2k HP, it would come down to how hard it is to deal with Trynda, is he hitting you hard and deleting you? Then attack speed wouldn't matter much, it'd be his damage. For this case the 90 armor could be argued for in the case of FH, but it's a Trynda. In this case if he's dominating you, I'd go for Sunfire for the HP.

But if he's an okay lane, I'd go FH

Warpes1 votes

No one builds sunfire cape over randuins vs tryndamere unless they're bronze 5..........

nor is tryndamere the only matchup top lane. sunfire for "buy armor" does work well against most other matchups

Proxy3451 votes

Maokai is a mage now lol

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