Why are Ranged Champions able to build Gauntlet?

Elwe The Jungler·Apr 10, 2016·73 votes·3,505 views

Just... Why? I understand the usefulness of Iceborn Gauntlet as it helps Mellee Champions that lack chain CC to get some sticking power

But, I mean, why would an ADC be able to do so? They're already ranged, most of them (mainly the ones who build Gauntlet now) have effective dashes and mobility tools and still they are able to build an item which gives them high damage output, some tankiness, high CDR and almost a permanent slow. Even building Frozen Mallet on ranged Champions reduces the slow effectiveness... (that would be an option also, instead of not letting ranged Champions purchase it)

I'm not talking only about Ezreal. I've seen it used by Vayne and Lucian... It's really annoying to deal with it and offers no counterplay besides bursting the enemy instantly.

73 Comments

ChaddyFantomeApr 10, 201625 votes

Because "muh Blue Ezreal " Nothing more. Nothing less.

Blue Ezreal can die in a fire and I wouldn't miss him.

Elwe The JunglerApr 10, 20168 votes

Giving a unfair advantage to almost a entire class just to keep up an already annoying build doesn't seem reasonable lol

The Yetii RiderApr 11, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Elwe The Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XBXAU0Al,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-04-10T21:02:53.379+0000)

Giving a unfair advantage to almost a entire class just to keep up an already annoying build doesn't seem reasonable lol

It's not an advantage. The majority of the marksman class has been reworked to become dependent on critical strike chance, so building an item that gives you no AD, no AS, no LS and no crit is very inefficient. If the player is building some kite power and tankiness and exchanging an entire item slot for it, that's a fair trade.

Ezreal is definitely an outlier. Riot attempted to rework him into a full AD caster but even though they tried to make ER good on him they did nothing to increase his crit dependence. The bolt from Ezreal's Arcane Shift should be changed to deal physical damage and be able to critically strike, and his ultimate should have its base damage lowered and be able to critically strike champions. The issue is that Riot left AD Ezreal so bad for so long that he has a dedicated AP mid player base now, and if they change him to be more crit dependent they are killing that build.

Vayne and Lucian should see significant power drops by building IBG, especially since 20% crit is redundant on someone who rushes ER.

NyhverApr 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's not an advantage. The majority of the marksman class has been reworked to become dependent on critical strike chance, so building an item that gives you no AD, no AS, no LS and no crit is very inefficient. If the player is building some kite power and tankiness and exchanging an entire item slot for it, that's a fair trade.

Ezreal is definitely an outlier. Riot attempted to rework him into a full AD caster but even though they tried to make ER good on him they did nothing to increase his crit dependence. The bolt from Ezreal's Arcane Shift should be changed to deal physical damage and be able to critically strike, and his ultimate should have its base damage lowered and be able to critically strike champions. The issue is that Riot left AD Ezreal so bad for so long that he has a dedicated AP mid player base now, and if they change him to be more crit dependent they are killing that build.

Vayne and Lucian should see significant power drops by building IBG, especially since 20% crit is redundant on someone who rushes ER.

Honestly this is primarily an issue, (I don't think IBG/trinity on Ez is a bad thing) of what his kit can do that others can't. Look at Ezreal traditionally, after his nerfs from release, he was primarily a 'low tier ADC pick' due to his usually non-ADC build, which could be a good ADC pick based off team comp / enemy team comp due to him being a safe ADC that needs next to no peel while offering poke

Add in IBG, trinity was still more powerful for the single target damage and synergized better than IBG for infinity edge, when ahead or fed Ezreal could deal a ton of damage, he also now has BOTRK available to him.

Now we're in S6, mages took a hit, assassin mids and tank tops that have a ton of dive reign supreme, Ezreal is a really popular pick due to his utility primarily from IBG, he helps chase down, he helps poke, he helps prevent being engaged onto. He still isn't the highest damage ADC, but he's a fairly safe pick even if he gives up lane pressure due to being Ez and/or building tear, and he usually does well despite team or enemy picks due to the nature of his kit with the items.

It's essentially the 'what does his kit offer with items' compared to other champions problem- and the answer is that really no other ADC offers the same range and threat with IBG that Ezreal does.

I don't think Ezreal is a problem, I think it's a problem of the meta we're in which is why he's so prolific, he's essentially the only ADC building IBG, and I think the flexibility of having an Ezreal as an ADC with IBG is good for diversity and anyone who enjoys the play style. Maybe they can nerf the width of the proc on ranged again, but IBG on Ez is fine imo

AckelopeApr 10, 201619 votes

I'm an Ezreal main and I'd like to see blue leave this world. It's the most toxic way to play the champion imo, and just not very much fun for anyone except maybe the Ez player :/

charcharmunroApr 10, 20169 votes

It must be tough being an Ezreal main and trying to play him WITHOUT using the various items he's constantly breaking.

ChaddyFantomeApr 11, 20162 votes

You earn my respect, good sir/mam.

Have a cookie! :) item 2054

AckelopeApr 11, 20162 votes

cookies are always appreciated :D

AlwaysByMySideApr 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm an Ezreal main

No you're not. Not on this account.

You played a single Ez game last season.

AckelopeApr 11, 20161 votes

I haven't really gotten much into ranked yet. I wasn't doing too well with it so I just sorta dropped it after playing a bit last season. It might make my opinion less valid in the eyes of some, but that's alright with me.

forrestoApr 12, 20161 votes

I miss ap ez. you never see him anymore

DefendedApr 11, 20168 votes

fking this. Take it away from ezreal please

Baby GhoulApr 11, 20164 votes

I'm so tired of seeing blue Ezreal in almost every single one of my games.

He's not worth a ban, which isn't saying much considering the state of balance this season, but I am so tired of getting hit with Frozen Gauntlet's passive on a champion that has range and mobility. If they know how to kite then it's even more miserable. They shouldn't be given something extra to help to chase people down when they have enough in their kits already.

I'm so glad someone made this thread because seriously, why is that a thing? There's no justification for it.

MalzaharAnyLaneApr 11, 20161 votes

tbh I've been playing since post-beta pre-season 1 and there has never been a good justification for Ezreal in general.

Elwe The JunglerApr 11, 20162 votes

They keep trying to make Ezreal a good ADC as a safe pick, but he should be a caster, not a simple ADC... I mean, look at his kit. From my point of view, Ezreal will always be a problem for balance if something doesn't change on the champ himself.

Hedgehog HustlerApr 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Elwe The Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XBXAU0Al,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2016-04-11T04:40:46.272+0000)

They keep trying to make Ezreal a good ADC as a safe pick, but he should be a caster, not a simple ADC... I mean, look at his kit. From my point of view, Ezreal will always be a problem for balance if something doesn't change on the champ himself.

The whole thing with Ezreal being a caster is always going to be a problem, especially because his E exists. Urgot fills the same role Ezreal does but will always be picked lower because of his lack of mobility that doesn't put him in danger, even though he can naturally kite without even needing Iceborn.

The biggest problem Ezreal had which kept him from seeing play before was dealing with tanks because of his reliance on single-target spells, so anyone playing Volibear could just wreck him. Now that the meta has shifted so that less tanks are being played he has shown up a lot more with his stupid tanky blue build.

mike in the boxApr 11, 20161 votes

blue build ez comes and goes. it was big middle of last season then fell off.

Need Gold 4 TentApr 11, 20161 votes

That was when lizard sword was a thing. Ibg will always be there, it's just waiting for something else to come along and combo with (this time I think it's essence reaver.)

The DeckownerApr 11, 20163 votes

Because Ezreal is the son of RITO. item 3025 item 3053 SHOULDNT be allowed to be build on ranged champion, and should need a 3k max hp limit.

Anu3isIIApr 11, 20163 votes

Since when does iceborn give a high damage output? Compared to many items that the ADC-s build, it is not amazing...

Need Gold 4 TentApr 11, 20161 votes

i agree, it does not give much in terms of straight damage. But it does make him pretty much uncatchable, while the dps drop isn't really that significant compared to the slipperiness and durability he gets.

Need Gold 4 TentApr 11, 20161 votes

And don't forget, living longer also means getting to pump out more damage, even though it's over a longer period of time, which can be considered a pseudo damage increase in a way.

Anu3isIIApr 11, 20161 votes

I agree with you that it offers lots of useful stats, but the real problem with Iceborn appears when it is spammed from long range without too much of a risk. Iceborn helps the user to increase its safety to the point where the user can just "kite" the whole game.

Also, if the respective ADC builds Iceborn, his/her damage potential will be extremely lowered, especially if it is built very early. Their DPS will be low in general, and they can be literally ignored.

Now... I know what, or better said, who... is the real problem... Ezreal . From my point of view, he(or she if I'm allowed to bring this joke :3) is the only ADC that actively and continuously abuses this item. What I would do is to nerf his damage so that he has to choose between getting more utility and safety (Iceborn) or more reliable damage (Trinity).

Unfortunately (or fortunately) Iceborn's damage will be lowered, so I expect some players to start building Trinity now.

KillerKellApr 12, 20161 votes

I mean, you COULD do the same with EZ's Brutha from Anotha Mutha, Lucian.

High Mobility, Spam Abilities, benefits from Sheen Procs.

Obviously, being way more geared to AD, Lucian has other Sheen Items to take before he'd go IBG... but it would still be a decent item on him for the same reason it is on EZ.

Of course, if it wasn't for the Sheen Proc then EZ would just take a Rylia's in Blue Build... and I've seen some that do just to ensure Perma-Slow as they rotate between Sheen Slow Auto and Ability Slow Rylia's. Because really it's not his Basic Attack Range that gets you, it's the extreme range on his Abilities.

5000000000000000Apr 11, 20162 votes

What if iceborn passive worked like Titanic Hydra? If it's a cone, it's barely effective for kiting, while still being good for chasing. This would make peeling with the slow zone a little difficult, though.

laststanding6Apr 11, 20162 votes

agreed. As a plus, maybe if iceborn was melee only, we'd see more use out of trinity

OyddAWqJ5rApr 11, 20162 votes

Because Blue Build Ezreal is fun and intuitive, especially when you think of all the counter-strategies to his endless barrage of AoE slowing. Strategies like: 100-0'ing him, killing him in less than 1 second, or even unloading several undodgeable hard CC effects on him followed by killing him before he can move.

As you can see it's quite easy to play around.

CatastropApr 11, 20162 votes

Because one piece of garbage abusing it doesn't mean that all ranged champions should be prevented from using it as well?

DatalessApr 11, 20162 votes

The counterplay to blue Ezreal Ezreal is abusing the ramp up time for his build. He needs two items to fully come online and do what he does best, so picking an ADC that can win all-ins and spike off of 1 item can help you get an advantage, break his tower, and hopefully accelerate the game.

Champions like Corki

øHaruøApr 10, 20161 votes

I love going Iceborn and PD on Vayne. TRY TO CATCH ME.

redniwediSApr 10, 201626 votes

Honestly I'd even be fine with that, if "try to catch me" didn't also mean "try to escape from me".

GaleWinUnleashedApr 11, 20162 votes

I think you found the nail and hit it on the head here. The problem with Iceborn is that it doesn't really have a niche at all right now. It's good for chasing, it's good for kiting, it's good for damage, it's good for cooldown reduction.

EndlessSorcererApr 10, 20162 votes

Out of curiousity, why wouldn't you just build Frozen Mallet on Vayne?

She doesn't really benefit from the armor or CDR the same way as other carries, she doesn't doesn't greatly benefit from Spellblade due to low base AD and reliance on Q for positioning, and the raw health would be more useful for mitigating burst damage (since it helps against all types of damage).

MazariamontiApr 11, 20161 votes

With cdr you can get the cooldown on the q to just under a second I think, it's a little obnoxious if you take her top lane.

GaleWinUnleashedApr 11, 20161 votes

Minimum cooldown on Q is 1.2 seconds, assuming you didn't take the bonus 5% from masteries.

NyhverApr 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Out of curiousity, why wouldn't you just build Frozen Mallet on Vayne?

She doesn't really benefit from the armor or CDR the same way as other carries, she doesn't doesn't greatly benefit from Spellblade due to low base AD and reliance on Q for positioning, and the raw health would be more useful for mitigating burst damage (since it helps against all types of damage).

frozen mallet on vayne has been the most underrated thing forever

Jungle Lux GodApr 11, 20161 votes

I would assume it has to deal with the Sheen proc. The low cooldown of her Q means she can theoretically get a ton of sheen procs in a short amount of time, and the cooldown on Spellblade (1.5 seconds) syncs up perfectly with her Q cooldown (2 seconds at rank 5, 1.6 after 20% CDR), so in theory she would compensate for low base AD with the ability to repeatedly proc the slow.

Additionally, Vayne would probably appreciate the CDR on her E and R.

Keep in mind that I might be wrong about all the stuff I said since I don't play Vayne.

LichKing234Apr 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I would assume it has to deal with the Sheen proc. The low cooldown of her Q means she can theoretically get a ton of sheen procs in a short amount of time, and the cooldown on Spellblade (1.5 seconds) syncs up perfectly with her Q cooldown (2 seconds at rank 5, 1.6 after 20% CDR), so in theory she would compensate for low base AD with the ability to repeatedly proc the slow.

Additionally, Vayne would probably appreciate the CDR on her E and R.

Keep in mind that I might be wrong about all the stuff I said since I don't play Vayne.

yeah its the Sheen proc plus since her Q impowers her next auto so plus that with the sheen proc tons of dmg

like nasus early game with 50 stacks with a sheen you will be doing about 300+ dmg assuming your maxing your Q first about i say 200-250+ dmg to champs and more if they are in your E and thats jsut with 50 stacks

forrestoApr 12, 20161 votes

I beg to differ. wouldn't the cdr be great? while she has low base AD, she gets to tumble more due to cdr. every time she tumbles she gets an empowered auto, not just from spellblade, but from the %total AD damage on q. The mana is kindve eh since no vayne should ever run out, but the armor could be situationally useful depending on the comp. for instance if they have a zed or something.

I think the gauntlet would ultimately make her q hit a bit harder, giver her extra utility from the slow, extra utility from being able to tumble more often, and more damage/utility from having her ult up more often(though I admit that particular cd is usually not a problem.)

CoolMike127Apr 11, 20161 votes

Prohibiting the use of an item, just because only Ezreal can build around it and utilize it successfully, is seemingly a bit drastic. All Ezreal is constant poke kite, makes it really annoying to chase or run from him, but doesn't mean he can't be CC or Bursted down. Most champions have a method of reaching him and can either CC him, or Burst him, even with E, as his E has a delay.

Though I fully agree, Blue Ezreal is annoying as all hell to deal with. Honestly can't decide if he is more or less annoying than Tank Ekko , either a champion that has constant poke damage and slow, or a champion that has strong cc and aoe damage, while being hard to kill.

ImmortalBloodCYApr 11, 20161 votes

Tank Ekko can be killed by an AD Semi-Tank Mordekaiser (His Q scales with AD ridiculously well build 2 AD items and on 3rd hit it can have +500-600 AD extra dmg.)

A item 3022 on Mordekaiser is a great combination.

CoolMike127Apr 12, 20161 votes

That's like saying Blue Ezreal can be killed by an Assassin or any Burst damage Dealer...

I don't see Mordekaiser as much as I did during Juggernaut Meta anymore, so I have no idea how strong he is, so I can't say, but I'll take your word for it and be ready in case I see one ;)

ImmortalBloodCYApr 12, 20161 votes

Well..... to be frank I too barely see Mordekaiser in ranked games now and very little in normals. Only time I see a is when I play him xD but i am in EUNE so I dont know about NA.

However by personal experience a Mordekaiser can kill an Ekko , the biggest weakness has is that he is easy to be kited that's why I always build item 3022 and item 3116 on him in every game i play him.

item 3116 for when i use his E/W/R item 3022 for when I use his Q, also it seems that takes priority over if his Q is used. I dont know if that's a bug or if its supposed to happen but since his Q is a melee single-target multi-hit ability i guess it works.

However item 3022 and item 3116 do not stack.

As for blue Ezreal dont take my word for it but I have seen people kill him as assassin or any burst damage Dealer but that depends on the circumstances

Voluug13Apr 11, 20161 votes

Something something Jayce something something Gnar.

It Hertz When IPApr 11, 20161 votes

Gnar doesn't use mana.

KillerKellApr 12, 20161 votes

True, but he can still proc the Slow... which is the point.

Is there a BETTER Sheen Proc for Gnar? Yes. Does IBG still work for Gnar? Yes.

FeathermaneApr 11, 20161 votes

Oh yeah, poor melee champions. My heart goes out to uninteractive stat sticks with double-dip scaling and high base damage. Their immunity to getting kited, getting peeled and taking damage should extend to getting item exclusivity.

I just watched a game where Irelia, with no combat summoner spells, beat a Hecarim by proccing sheen once every time he came to lane. And after one proc, he could no longer stay in lane. This started from the moment she got the sheen, and wouldn't reverse no matter how long the game lasted. This is the type of compelling non-gameplay pattern melee champions create. No opening, no things you can do differently, just settle on the optimal build, never deviate and hope you are playing the alpha ape in the champion pool.