F in the chat for the support role.

Ymir1906·Nov 20, 2019·63 votes·15,967 views

Preseason is upon us and with it comes the new support items. With that, support becomes a dead role.

The freed up early gold is nice, I’m not gonna lie, but it isn’t going to matter when everyone realizes they’ll only be able to complete one item before their gold income falls off a cliff. From then on they’ll be reduced to ward bots as that’s the only thing the’ll be able to afford.

Nobody’s gonna play support anymore. You have no gold, no items, no impact, and no champion diversity. You can either play Pyke, Thresh, Janna, or Soraka. Probably. I dunno. But we will definitely see many, many picks leave the role. No more Swain, Lux, Brand, Morg, Sona, etc.

You can’t even play tanks. With the buffs to lethality items and your nonexistent gold assassins like Pyke or Zed will just shred you. That is, if the enemy Yasuo with 100% crit with two Cloaks doesn’t first. Then you spend the rest of the game doing literally nothing because if you even think about going in the real champs on the enemy team will just step on you. No gold, no tank stats. Worse than useless.

Enchanters will be completely useless. The loss of mana regen and CDR will mean far less up time without sufficient gold income to make up for it. Sure it’ll feel good to rush an early Athene’s but once you have it that only marks the beginning of your rapid decline into irrelevance. Ditto mages. The mana costs of champions like Lux and Morgana will make playing support completely impossible.

Support is returning to being the role you have to tolerate one out of every five games or so. The role where someone has to take one for the team every now and again and be everyone else’s little wardbot. I hope you guys like autofill because it’s about to get much worse.

93 Comments

FURRY V2Nov 20, 201953 votes

~~Player Base~~ It is impossible to make support role less enjoyable than it already is. ~~RITO~~ Hold my beer.

ﬂooNov 20, 201917 votes

Good thing is that mage supports are finally being pushed out of botlane. Nobody asked for them, and they actually removed all mana reg. on all of spellthiefs items. The bad part being that enchanters are without mana regen early on. However, manaflow (and potentially presence of mind) can still help them in that regard. Additionally they can just buy into other support items earlier which all grant mana/health regen, because of no more extra costs to the support item.

In conclusion it's a good change. Supports don't get to perma poke in lane due to having no mana issues and frew cdr. Lowered base stats + health on supp items also mean people won't kill each other every single trade anymore.

RebeccaUCuberNov 20, 20193 votes

Yep i forgot to talk about this change. Yeah i dont want burst mages here...just try to keep them mid. If they struggle there's must be a reason... Zed Yasuo Qiyana Talon

(yeah i randomly added Yasuo cos reasons :P)

ﬂooNov 20, 20192 votes

It really depends on the matchup, but even then you can play around most of them. Lethality should be nerfed since duskblade isn't loaded with 200 effects anymore. Serrated Dirk is also losing damage.

Yasuo as a matter of fact, hopefully gets nerfs. He is already in a good spot and now get's to have 100% crit with 1.6k gold, excuse me what the fuck?

RebeccaUCuberNov 20, 20196 votes

And i didn't notice that they kept cdr on assassin items :) As a support i will have less cdr than assassins in early game. Great!

You Are Cute XDNov 20, 20197 votes

Every other lane gets to build a 20% CDR item. Supports don't have one, because they got CDR on their support item. Now they don't, and it will be hard for enchanters to get the CDR they really need. Especially since the CDR runes are mostly level based, and way less helpful at support.

PerfecJhinNov 20, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=You Are Cute XD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WPXTbcj2,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2019-11-20T18:01:49.437+0000)

Every other lane gets to build a 20% CDR item. Supports don't have one, because they got CDR on their support item. Now they don't, and it will be hard for enchanters to get the CDR they really need. Especially since the CDR runes are mostly level based, and way less helpful at support.

Blame the mage players for that. Lux, Brand, Swain Zyra, etc. getting 40% cdr off of one rune and 1 item (with frostfang) was the most unhealthy shit I've ever seen in this game

You Are Cute XDNov 20, 20193 votes

That's why I'm not asking for the CDR option to be put back on the mage support items, I'm asking for a CDR option for champions that prefer that to AP. So basically, the ancient coin line. If the choice was coin's CDR and mana regen, or these neutered ap options, I'd be taking coin on enchanters every time.

ﬂooNov 20, 20192 votes

But exactly that was the problem. CDR and mana reg in 1 early item that any built. If you bring back coin, do it with cdr OR mana reg and heal/shield power. Otherwise mages are gonna opt into it regardless.

Also, supports don't need 20% cdr item since all their items are a lot cheaper compared to those of any other class and a lot of them had 10% cdr. 20% items shouldn't exist in the first place. The game has been so stuffed with cdr, it's ridiculous and unhealthy. URF is being removed, they turned the basic game into URF.

You Are Cute XDNov 20, 20194 votes

No way are mages opting into an item with zero AP on it.

Support items are cheaper yes, but now their gold generation cuts off after one item. They'll be lucky to build two items all game, and get to 20% CDR with a little bit of mana regen. It doesn't really do a ton to solve your issues when your main tool is on a 10 second cooldown and costs 130 mana.

Everyone else in the game can take transcendence and a 20% CDR item and be done. Supports are lucky to even get to level 10 for transcendence, and otherwise can get 20% CDR by completing two full items with no econ after the first 1000 gold.

ﬂooNov 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=You Are Cute XD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WPXTbcj2,comment-id=000700010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-20T19:18:11.045+0000)

No way are mages opting into an item with zero AP on it.

Might be true. Depends on the matchup I'd say, but might be true.

Support items are cheaper yes, but now their gold generation cuts off after one item. They'll be lucky to build two items all game, and get to 20% CDR with a little bit of mana regen. It doesn't really do a ton to solve your issues when your main tool is on a 10 second cooldown and costs 130 mana.

Everyone else in the game can take transcendence and a 20% CDR item and be done. Supports are lucky to even get to level 10 for transcendence, and otherwise can get 20% CDR by completing two full items with no econ after the first 1000 gold.

Hardly anyone but mages picks transcendence. Even if someone takes sorcery 2nd, absolute focus is often more preferable.

Okay let's go through the 20% cdr items:

item 3078 is as expensive as 2 support items. item 3508 is 3.2k, if you aren't Xayah or Lucian, this will be an inferior option to IE. Often times it's wiser to buy defensive/AS-crit items unless you're in the lead, but no first item. item 3285 item 3040 item 3030 are all mage items, who (imo) shouldn't have 20%. They are all must-buy 1st. However, mages want as much cdr as they can, the fact that the basic mana items also provide so much cdr is beyond me. item 3071 isn't 1st buy on all that many champs either. Shouldn't be 20% either imo. However, no bruiser or assassin ever takes transcendence. item 3115 is no 1st buy. item 3025 item 3110 are no 1st buy either.

All of those items are a lot more expensive than support items, the most expensive being item 3504 still 400g cheaper than FH/IBG.

The point is, you get 1000g from your support item passive, that a) allow you to buy other items way faster and be on par with e.g. mid buying item 3802 while also b) giving you free stats while the item upgrades. The balance here is, that after you upgrade it twice, you'll only rely on 3g/s and basic gold income. However you're also free to take farm that nobody else can take without being punished for it.

You Are Cute XDNov 20, 20196 votes

If I am an enchanter, who cares about mana regen and CDR, with that 1000 gold I can buy..... item 3114 . Which just replaces the stats they just took off the support item and then very little gold the rest of the game. In return, I get free stats on my support item, despite the fact that they are not stats I want and I have no say in them.

So, I spent the same gold to get fewer stats I care about than had I just gotten old Frostfang and a dark seal. And plus, my gold income is scuffed for the rest of the game. What you're not understanding here is that our income is being hamstrung late, and in return for that we get free stats that we have no say in and might not want at all.

It's like if you're playing Vlad, and riot says okay Vlad, we're taking away some of the gold you get from farming late. But, in return, you get a free item 3211 . Like yeah, the gold value could be roughly similar, but the Vlad has no say in either or not he actually WANTS the cowl. Rito has just decided that some of his gold goes towards a cowl, whether he wants it or not.

ΗuaweiNov 20, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=You Are Cute XD realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WPXTbcj2,comment-id=00070001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-20T20:19:42.907+0000)

If I am an enchanter, who cares about mana regen and CDR, with that 1000 gold I can buy..... . Which just replaces the stats they just took off the support item and then very little gold the rest of the game. In return, I get free stats on my support item, despite the fact that they are not stats I want and I have no say in them.

So, I spent the same gold to get fewer stats I care about than had I just gotten old Frostfang and a dark seal. And plus, my gold income is scuffed for the rest of the game. What you're not understanding here is that our income is being hamstrung late, and in return for that we get free stats that we have no say in and might not want at all.

It's like if you're playing Vlad, and riot says okay Vlad, we're taking away some of the gold you get from farming late. But, in return, you get a free . Like yeah, the gold value could be roughly similar, but the Vlad has no say in either or not he actually WANTS the cowl. Rito has just decided that some of his gold goes towards a cowl, whether he wants it or not.

And why the frak do i have to get the +10 attack damage or +10 ap item as leona. It makes no sense. Who thought this was a good idea

You Are Cute XDNov 20, 20195 votes

Exactly, we're having a significant portion of our income forced into things we have no say over.

You Are Cute XDNov 20, 20195 votes

Also, say I'm Janna . My rank 1 E has an 18 second cooldown, and the damage on frostfang removal means my laning is p garbage so I might have to put a few points in W. With olf support items, I could build up CDR to get that E cooldown down. I could take cosmic insight, and then for 1300 gold I could build Frostfang anf Forbidden Idol for 25% CDR to help with my punishing early CDs. Now, to get up to 25% CDR it will take at least 1700 gold, and that's if I build half of Redemption or Ardent and half of Athene's, or get Lucidity boots, because you can't stack Forbidden Idols.

So I won't feasibly get 25% CDR until I complete a full item and a half, even though i stop getting gold at half an item. Unless I want to sacrifice my roaming capability for CDR boots, and even then it's 400 gold more expensive.

Waka FIockaNov 20, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Good thing is that mage supports are finally being pushed out of botlane. Nobody asked for them, and they actually removed all mana reg. on all of spellthiefs items. The bad part being that enchanters are without mana regen early on. However, manaflow (and potentially presence of mind) can still help them in that regard. Additionally they can just buy into other support items earlier which all grant mana/health regen, because of no more extra costs to the support item.

In conclusion it's a good change. Supports don't get to perma poke in lane due to having no mana issues and frew cdr. Lowered base stats + health on supp items also mean people won't kill each other every single trade anymore.

"good thing mage supports are getting pushed out of botlane"

how is that a good thing? especially for a full-on support mage like Zyra, who was pushed out of midlane after her rework. She barely works anywhere but support botlane with all these new super heavy damage + mobility champ additions to the game. If you filter champs by support role, Zyra is there. So what? Where does she go now? You now get penalized for getting kills and accidentally taking cs while making good plays. Some of these mage supports are literally classed as supports but now... i dont even know where they will work and it makes me sad. Riot needs to stop gutting entire champion pools via item changes to appease some issues with a few specific champs. Instead they should be working directly on the champs that are the problem.

If anything it's the marksmen adcs/hybrids with invisibility dashes and gap closers getting perma poke since they don't need a resource pool (or to even step in your aa range) to smack your ass down.

Also I disagree with your "it's okay , they can still run the two same runes every game to make up for it somewhat". That is boring and stale. It's horrible. If you think people won't still kill each other every trade because suddenly supports can't function properly you are severely mistaken.

ΗuaweiNov 20, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Waka FIocka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WPXTbcj2,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2019-11-20T20:49:21.827+0000)

"good thing mage supports are getting pushed out of botlane"

how is that a good thing? especially for a full-on support mage like Zyra, who was pushed out of midlane after her rework. She barely works anywhere but support botlane with all these new super heavy damage + mobility champ additions to the game. If you filter champs by support role, Zyra is there. So what? Where does she go now? You now get penalized for getting kills and accidentally taking cs while making good plays. Some of these mage supports are literally classed as supports but now... i dont even know where they will work and it makes me sad. Riot needs to stop gutting entire champion pools via item changes to appease some issues with a few specific champs. Instead they should be working directly on the champs that are the problem.

If anything it's the marksmen adcs/hybrids with invisibility dashes and gap closers getting perma poke since they don't need a resource pool (or to even step in your aa range) to smack your ass down.

Also I disagree with your "it's okay , they can still run the two same runes every game to make up for it somewhat". That is boring and stale. It's horrible. If you think people won't still kill each other every trade because suddenly supports can't function properly you are severely mistaken.

Poor Zyra. I started loving her at season 8 that i was forced to play her to be able to burst people because whenever i picked enchanters i felt like shit. She is now one of my mains and it's sadness

[sg-janna]

ﬂooNov 20, 20191 votes

Zyra was not intended to be a support from heads on. She's been pushed into that role since her rework, as you said. That is NOT a good thing. I'll tell you why below. Now that mages are less oppressive early on in the support role, they might make it able for her to be balanced for midlane again.

You now get penalized for getting kills and accidentally taking cs while making good plays.

You don't? Not more than before? You need to excessively farm with a support item to get a heavy penalty for taking minions. And you never get punished for taking a kill?

Now, mages in botlane, especially support ARE a problem. With spellthiefs they were able to constantly poke out of safe range off cd. It's a terrible design to play a onesided dodgeball game and once you get hit by any cc you're dead. And if you seriously believe adc's are a problem because they can attack you, as a mage support, you're playing your champion wrong. New released adcs Kai'sa and Senna are horrible designs, but that is general, not only considering from a support perspective. Spellthiefs has been encouraging spam-poke and it's good we got rid of it. You can still play them, but it's no longer a poke-until-death game from lv 1 onwards.

ΗuaweiNov 20, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Zyra was not intended to be a support from heads on. She's been pushed into that role since her rework, as you said. That is NOT a good thing. I'll tell you why below. Now that mages are less oppressive early on in the support role, they might make it able for her to be balanced for midlane again.

You don't? Not more than before? You need to excessively farm with a support item to get a heavy penalty for taking minions. And you never get punished for taking a kill?

Now, mages in botlane, especially support ARE a problem. With spellthiefs they were able to constantly poke out of safe range off cd. It's a terrible design to play a onesided dodgeball game and once you get hit by any cc you're dead. And if you seriously believe adc's are a problem because they can attack you, as a mage support, you're playing your champion wrong. New released adcs Kai'sa and Senna are horrible designs, but that is general, not only considering from a support perspective. Spellthiefs has been encouraging spam-poke and it's good we got rid of it. You can still play them, but it's no longer a poke-until-death game from lv 1 onwards.

How can you play a mage support at any capacity anymore when your gold income falls flat at 1000g and you need to keep that damn item for wards?

Can you tell me? Reducing the poke is fine, flat out destroying the gold income is not.

I will have my revenge though. Prepare to autofill support now. You're going to have tons of fun doing it

GreenKnightNov 20, 20198 votes

Damn, i enjoyed carrying my iron-tier teammates as Leona (and Senna recently). But, i guess, we will see what the future holds.

Doesn't look pretty.

(And support items icons suuuuuck hard balls)

MorrhenNov 20, 20193 votes

Only thing really hitting Leona hard was the HP regen. Leona is in such a good spot, especially with all the Sennas running around. However, it's shame that Riot didnt bother adding purely TANK support item. Now you gotta choose if you want AD or AP item. None of which matter for champs like Leona or Nautilus.

The worst change is mainly for enchanter/mage supports, who severely got their mana regen cut into pieces.

ZiraNov 20, 20198 votes

I don't like the support changes, because I used to win lane early, back early to upgrade, and get wards really early. This change has capped gold at 15, so half the gold amount as the non-upgraded spellthief's, and you have to keep it for longer. I am really not a fan of this change. I guess you save a little bit over time with not being required to back to upgrade, but I think it's a costly price to pay. They should have kept the adjustment of not allowing you to receive the income if you are farming creeps regularly, and keep the rest of it relatively the same.

Also, I didn't even realize that it stopped giving gold completely after the last upgrade. I was looking for the amount in one of my last games, and couldn't find it -- so that's why.

I may be finding a new main role...

I've been a support main since season 2. This is... very, very absolutely awful.

ΗuaweiNov 20, 20194 votes

{quoted}

I don't like the support changes, because I used to win lane early, back early to upgrade, and get wards really early. This change has capped gold at 15, so half the gold amount as the non-upgraded spellthief's, and you have to keep it for longer. I am really not a fan of this change. I guess you save a little bit over time with not being required to back to upgrade, but I think it's a costly price to pay. They should have kept the adjustment of not allowing you to receive the income if you are farming creeps regularly, and keep the rest of it relatively the same.

Also, I didn't even realize that it stopped giving gold completely after the last upgrade. I was looking for the amount in one of my last games, and couldn't find it -- so that's why.

I may be finding a new main role...

I've been a support main since season 2. This is... very, very absolutely awful.

What if you don't like playing other roles? I even persevered through season 8 playing Zyra support as much as i hated season 8 and it's guts Now by the Gods, why did Riot destroy the role so hard?

Supports got nerfed to season 2 standards.

It feels like you're trying to win a gun fight with a switchblade

RebeccaUCuberNov 20, 20196 votes

I main enchanters since...i don't even remember now! Through season 8-9, i could not remain in Plat cos i played too much and challegende the almost complete coinflip games that enchaters are forced to accept. Saving riot's best girl Janna who's the really only solid pick, and sometimes Nami Enchanters have been at their team mercy with 0 impact after lane phase.

Karma Gutted before Worlds again, but also cos toxic Karma top, that now without Klepto i hope she can vanish so support Karma can have some love. Lulu In a weird state. Can be extremely strong in some matchup, completely useless in others. Since enemy just instashot your R'd target anyway. Lux She was a broken enchanter, now she's just another mage in bot. I wish she could be still reliable qith a more defensive build. Morgana Gutted cos HOW DARE YOU COUNTER THE ENGAGERS WE LOVE FOR LCS. I prefer her as enchanter than with the zonya build. You just survive 2 more seconds and enemy just use their mobiltiy to escape your ulti anyway. Senna She could be a good enchanter. Now she just outdmg her adc, bursty as hell and already with good stats. Too good since she's so good in 2 roles. Sona Early game is everything now, and with her mana costs, she will fall to oblivion now. She already has to manage mana correctly to not finish it before this changes. Now with this items and her weak early...she's...what? Soraka One of the most reliable, but cant do anything if enemy has some mobility to kill her or an engager support. All this supports just counter her too much. Taric RIP Yuumi Gutted cos she had to be gutted. Better full ap now, hardly consider her a true enchanter. Still unreliable vs engagers.

And this is the situation about enchanters. Giving them no income means just what you said OP...warding botss, and with even LESS exp!!! Idk what to do with my favourite role right now. Seems just Riot hates enchaters and wardens so much they want them to never be played anymore. And i already imagine the autofill support picking a Zed cos he's probably a better support than others without dmg right now.

You Are Cute XDNov 20, 20195 votes

Don't forget how hard it will be to get anywhere near 40% CDR as an enchanter now. Especially since they halved the uptime on shields, you really needed that CDR.

RebeccaUCuberNov 20, 20191 votes

I usually take Trascendence. (i know it's not really worth waiting 10 minutes. I just like it xD) Probably i will be forced to always take it now...along with ispiration second...

You Are Cute XDNov 21, 20191 votes

It's level 10, right? Not 10 minutes. Which you hit pretty late as support.

RebeccaUCuberNov 21, 20191 votes

Ugh yeah! I confusd it with the resolve tree middle rune mb!

Nea104Nov 20, 20196 votes

Even if I was pretty sure that they were gonna mess everything up hard once again, just as for S8 and S9, I didn't expect this hard.

Nice start! Please surprise us even more, with all your skills :D

ΗuaweiNov 20, 20196 votes

I agree.

This season has destroyed me from the very few games i played.

I thought season 8 was bad to play support because i was 1 shotted but now, everything went to shit.

Have fun getting autofilled as support guys. Because i know that most support mains will either stop queue'ing up for the role or just flat out stop playing this season, like me.

Worst JG WinsNov 20, 20195 votes

WTF are you talking about the support items are being hard buffed. Supports are literally getting 2000 free gold. The buffs to the support role this offseason are actually insane.

I'm literally gonna quit playing JG and swaping to the support role until this shit gets nerfed. It's support probably the strongest role in the game on 9.23

ArmentyNov 20, 201911 votes

WHat the duck are you talking about? Yes, you get free upgrades on your stupid support item. Awesome. So you lose 400g for first buy and +1400 for the upgrade. Then you get 1000g from the quest, means +2000g that is ... ONE item. Awesome. One item after ~ 14 mins. and after that, you have literally NO goldincome except the +3g/10 seconds. After few rounds I had in 40 min around 9k gold .... 9k ... that's my 4th item ... in 40 mins when EVERYONE ist fullbuild. EVEN THE FUCKING 0/1254/0 YASUO IS FUCKING FULLBUILD UNTIL I GET MY FIFTH ITEM. DON'T YOU DARE SAY ITS A BUFF

Worst JG WinsNov 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

WHat the duck are you talking about? Yes, you get free upgrades on your stupid support item. Awesome. So you lose 400g for first buy and +1400 for the upgrade. Then you get 1000g from the quest, means +2000g that is ... ONE item. Awesome. One item after ~ 14 mins. and after that, you have literally NO goldincome except the +3g/10 seconds. After few rounds I had in 40 min around 9k gold .... 9k ... that's my 4th item ... in 40 mins when EVERYONE ist fullbuild. EVEN THE FUCKING 0/1254/0 YASUO IS FUCKING FULLBUILD UNTIL I GET MY FIFTH ITEM. DON'T YOU DARE SAY ITS A BUFF

It's strictly a massive buff at all points in the game after first back. You would need to generate 2400+ 10or 20 gold per min from the passive for this to be a "nerf" which no support champ is ever doing before they're full build.

ArmentyNov 20, 20196 votes

What people always forget is, that you never bought the T3 support item. So yes, you get an 850g Item for free, but you never realy used and needed it. What we needed was our core items (Athenes, Ardent, Redemption, Zekes etc etc etc.) so having a +850g bonus for a useless item wont help any of us. Also, we only get a 450g bonsu from first back compared to the last season. You only bought T2 Support item and rush your Boots/Core item imediantly. So you had your first item in min 14~. Your second in min 21, firht in 25/26 and 5th in min 30. (fullbuild). Now you get your first Item with lv 12(yes, only 450g+ doesn't improve that much of time), have done the quest in min 15 and stuck hard till you get the second item with min 23-25 ... I just don'T see any point why you won'T give us the ducking goldincome passiv back. Take away the stats of the Item, nerf them, whatever but give me my ducking Gold back.

RyzeReworkNov 21, 20191 votes

That's so dumb why wouldnt you buy the upgraded item? It gives you an extra ward?? And survivability

You Are Cute XDNov 20, 20195 votes

What you're missing is that the free gold value being given with the support items is going towards stuff you have no control over and probably don't even want. If I'm playing Janna, I want CDR and mana regen, not AP and HP. So it's effectively just removing choice you had, in addition to basically capping you at being able to buy two items.

RyzeReworkNov 21, 20192 votes

[deleted]

You Are Cute XDNov 21, 20191 votes

Hey, I just wanted to thank you for being a dick. It really brings a lot to the conversation when you look someone up and flame them for the 3 games of Janna they played.

RyzeReworkNov 21, 20191 votes

Nah my point is your talking from a person that doesnt play janna acting like they know how it will affect them. A character shouldnt be able to spam abilities off CD and continuously use her high speed plus comment or areiy to poke down somone. They should have to think about how much mana to conserve.

PzyXoNov 20, 20192 votes

No more Swain, Lux, Brand, Morg, Sona

Isn't that a good thing? None love these shits in support

5or6storesNov 20, 20195 votes

First 3 yes, but Morg and Sona are staple picks. Sona can't be played anywhere else viably + Morg E is vital to keep the hook supports in check.

ChaddyFantomeNov 20, 20192 votes

See, my biggest issue overall isnt even how strong or weak supports are. Its the simple fact that these changes Re a regression back to making the role boring. It's like we are slowly crawling back to season 3 supports...

GigglesONov 21, 20191 votes

I actually like the lower damage in botlane...

What I don't like is losing all gold gen when the item completes....

Buck StricklandNov 21, 20192 votes

I have 2 requests. Nerf Assassins and Nerf the hell out of ADC champs so nobody even plays them. TY.

MikeJ122ONov 20, 20191 votes

I've played like 5 pbe games as Sona support and it didn't feel worse than S9. I don't have to back just to upgrade my Spellthief's to Frostfang and I can stay in lane longer. The mana regen was useless because I build Archangel's Staff first item and it gives 20% CDR.

I guarantee that Autofill will still be Jungle/Bot

GinoSoldierNov 20, 20191 votes

The issue is that that Archangel's is the only item you'll ever build, or close enough. The supp item only gives 600 net gold (+170 if you sell it), and then you just gain a trickle from the gold over time, as the quest dissapears after 1k gold.

WTBeGirl100EUhrNov 20, 20192 votes

People who fully upgraded their support item were often gold negative on it before.

GinoSoldierNov 20, 20194 votes

Except no one who uses spellthiefs or coin has any reason to fully upgrade it, and FotM is actually a great buy and entirely worth the gold.

WTBeGirl100EUhrNov 20, 20191 votes

I don't really agree with FotM being worth the buy either but, hey, not really an important point.

I don't disagree with you otherwise. Old support items weren't what was giving you all of your gold though. It was pretty normal to make maybe 2k max from the gold items (sometimes more from spellthiefs), of which you're spending 950 on the item. That's pretty comparable to the 1k gold for the quest complete from the new items, even ignoring the 3 GP/10 you keep afterwards.

You Are Cute XDNov 20, 20193 votes

First off, you didn't upgrade your support item all the way unless it was Targon's.

So you were getting 2k. Now you're getting 1k, and a bunch of stats on your support item that you have no choice in and may or may not want. If I'm an enchanter, I don't even want any of the stats the support item is giving. I don't want half my income going to that.