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As a Taliyah main with level 7 mastery on her...

inplane··56 votes·3,166 views

Please revert the Vector Casting change on her W. It's ridiculously clunky and fidgety now. I can't even simply knock the enemy up anymore. I'm forced to toss into a direction, which is something that also screws me up when I misclick and knock the opponent away. The only change that was needed is to let her cast other spells while casting W. It just feels like a complete mess now.

Also, I can't see the radius of it anymore, so that really messes with my aim.

EDIT: For those that doubt my experience with Taliyah, I have 78.5k Mastery Points with Taliyah. I mainly play her Support and occasionally Jungle. However, this isn't about Mastery Level and never was. It was to bring some validity to my point.

EDIT2: Please refer to these two topics for any other further discussions:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/dEU7p2YO-patch-614-taliyah-change-official-seismic-shove-w-change-request-petition

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/A5AfJNpr-1-month-ago-make-taliyahs-w-vector-casting1

51 Comments

inplane12 votes

The thing is the "drag and release" mechanism isn't good on Taliyah because she already has enough aiming and preempting to do. Lets not also forget that this is her main CCing ability, whereas Rumble's and Viktor's are damaging abilities. Trying to drag and release against moving targets with an ability that has such a small radius that requires insane amounts of planning is a no go.

EtyrnaI7 votes

Please See Here

TyroneWatermelon7 votes

Champion mastery level means nothing.

inplane5 votes

{quoted}

Champion mastery level means nothing.

In all honesty, it doesn't mean jack shit. But neither did the opinions of those asking for this horrible change that is Vector Casting on an aoe CC ability. It does, however, bring some validity to my point. I know no one would listen to me if I flat out said "Revert this change." without any points backing it up.

Dunkrius2g1 votes

Mastery level means nothing, although the amount of points you have acquired does.

inplane1 votes

{quoted}

Mastery level means nothing, although the amount of points you have acquired does.

True. Unfortunately I haven't been able to accumulate over 100k points as Taliyah yet due to not being able to play much recently and not really wanting to play much recently.

Being the few people who even played this champ over a mastery level of 4, I can't let Mastery level judge everything. This is a blaring issue for a champ that has been released for barely over a month.

Dunkrius2g2 votes

Thats pretty much all i have to say. as for the problem with taliyah, i havent played her to know what it is. Although i hope riot does "LISTEN" to the community.

inplane1 votes

{quoted}

Thats pretty much all i have to say. as for the problem with taliyah, i havent played her to know what it is. Although i hope riot does "LISTEN" to the community.

Any response is appreciated.

I know Taliyah isn't the only champ in the game, but I'd like her to be viable at the least. She was already kind of weak beforehand. Now that more nerfs are coming in, it's really grim for the poor Earthbender.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

{quoted}

Champion mastery level means nothing.

It means he got 5 S ranks on this champion which in turn means he is probably doing well very often with that champion.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

It doesn't because everyone can spam normals and only care for their k/d/a instead of actually winning the game and helping their team. This is why it's way easier to get S with mages,Assassins and Marksmen

FioraWillCarry2 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't because everyone can spam normals and only care for their k/d/a instead of actually winning the game and helping their team. This is why it's way easier to get S with mages,Assassins and Marksmen

K/D/A alone cannot give you S ranks. You have to play effectively. Just looking for kills alone would yield at best an A.

Athina6 votes

I don't know why anyone thought that this change was a good idea. The clunkiness of vector casting aside, the added input delay alone kills the ability.

LadyRenly1 votes

{quoted}

I don't know why anyone thought that this change was a good idea. The clunkiness of vector casting aside, the added input delay alone kills the ability.

because taliyahs w being shit and clunky was basically a meme, regardless of the truth

Nymeara6 votes

Im with these people, her play style fit her personality and it was smooth. Now its spam everything combo, no thought. i really enjoyed her, then i tried the new taliyah now im looking for a new champion. I couldnt find a way to knock somebody straight up and down, is that still possible?

Eevee In A Jar4 votes

Now its spam everything combo, no thought.

This is pretty much what Riot is trying to make with every champ.

Ultîma1 votes

With cooldowns so low on E to the point where you could essentially have a 95% upkeep on the minefield, I really, really fail to see the point you're trying to make since Riot is actively nerfing her ability to spam.

The Deckowner3 votes

theoriotically if you get used to the viktor rumble style cast it would get smoother.

inplane1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=W721WulP,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-07-14T03:52:55.067+0000)

theoriotically if you get used to the viktor rumble style cast it would get smoother.

Yes that is true. However, they need to tweak the skill as it is right now. First things first, they need to change the targeting reticle to an AOE circle, not a line skillshot.

That or toggle an option to use either Vector Casting or her previous "Two Step Casting".

The Deckowner2 votes

they can make it that when you press the key it shows you hitbox and when you let go you can press the key again you do the second cast like right now.

BottleCapster3 votes

^ Pretty much this. As someone used to Vector Casting, this change feels sooooo good. I felt like her old cast paradigm was really odd and clunky, and honestly like many at the time of her release to the PBE, felt that her W would work better as a vector cast. It feels really fluid now to me, which I can understand how people who took the time to get used to her old 2-step cast paradigm would find really awkward. Part of why me and others vouched so hard for Vector casting during the PBE phase is because of that learning curve, and because let's be honest, its very rare that a cast paradigm gets changed after release.

It really surprises me that Riot decided to go back to it, especially with how adamant they were when they were telling us off for suggesting Vector casting in the first place.

Eedat2 votes

turn off quick casting for the ability and it works like it used to lol

Athina9 votes

No. It doesn't work like that. The thing that made the old version great was that the ability started INSTANTLY. Now you have to drag and release before the ability casts.

Eedat2 votes

yeah.... and turning off quick casting on a vector ability turns off the "drag and release" aspect. Same goes for Rumble ult

Athina8 votes

You don't get it. The first click of the original ability started the cast. It would go off in 1 second NO MATTER WHAT. Now you have to wait to input a direction before it casts, which can add significant enough time to the ability to miss entirely.

Eedat2 votes

you just press the button twice and it'll start channeling immediately though. I mean unless the .05 second it takes to double tap the key makes a difference

TFBaam2 votes

i have died so many times with a spell coming up .1 to 1 second before its up ofc .5 matters

Wyrmblade2 votes

Instead of removing Vector casting it should start when you click and end when you release.

Athina4 votes

This is what I expected and why I wasn't outspoken against it when it was announced.

inplane3 votes

{quoted}

Instead of removing Vector casting it should start when you click and end when you release.

I thought this was the change and I'm like "Oh! Cool. Maybe now I can perform my combos easier." But then I went into ranked with her (worst mistake imaginable) and when I tried to toss the enemy Nami into my minefied, I'm like "Dafuq." Missed it completely, missed 2 free kills, and got my ADC killed.

Kaisa is Hot1 votes

{quoted}

No. It doesn't work like that. The thing that made the old version great was that the ability started INSTANTLY. Now you have to drag and release before the ability casts.

Then git gud?

Photos of Ghosts2 votes

There's only one casting process, so if you're casting W with that weird delay, you're not casting the rest. You need vector cast.

Astôlfo1 votes

And… someone who knows nothing.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Excu fucking se me?

Astôlfo1 votes

Sorry, do you need help reading?

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

I need you to justify what you said.

Astôlfo1 votes

Justify what about it? Vector cast is not needed and it was implemented fucking horribly.

inplane2 votes

For the people who downvoted this thread, please explain why Taliyah having no radius indicator and decent control and flexibility over her main CC ability is a justifiably good change. I'm just really curious. My main has been tampered with in one of the worst ways possible and I really want to know why.

BottleCapster4 votes

I think your thread would get most of its downvotes from people happy with Vector Targetting, rather than those who wouldn't want clearer cast indicators. I do agree with you at least on that, because the current casting indicator is very lacking. But otherwise I think the new cast paradigm suits her quite well.

Astôlfo1 votes

AKA people who know jack about her compared to people who actually know her

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

The change is for new players, duh huh. Why do you think it would be a good idea to change the mechanics of a combo for the mains if it only brings a better learning curve?

Astôlfo1 votes

Uh, because it should be something that actually takes skill to learn and rewards that, like the old mechanic used to be? You know, instead of fucking ruining her core combo and the champion itself for her mains and people who love her and have tons of experience on her?

Dengeden2 votes

They intentionally made it harder to use so you can cast spells while casting W. I suck at Taliyah but I like this change. It makes her roaming (and teamfighting) a bit more reliable and the E nerf subtracts from her lane bullying (which has always felt off).

Her W was always hard to cast in the heat of the moment but I think we can adapt to it.

Astôlfo1 votes

Uh, you mean turned W and Taliyah into trash?

Dengeden1 votes

Q poke remains oppressive and probably will continue to be so after the nerfs next patch. W can now be combo'd with an E that was already cast. E still provides excellent anti-mobility burst and setup.

inplane2 votes

Lets not discuss too much about Champion Mastery right now. This isn't about that. The issue here is the buggy Vector Casting with Taliyah and how it doesn't suit her at all right now. The only reason why I brought up Champ Mastery was to bring some validity to my point. Nothing more and nothing less.

Ultîma1 votes

How exactly doesn't it suit her? Her W has a directional cast input, which is consistent with other spells that use vector targeting. Not to mention, the Cast-Slide-Release paradigm of vector casting is vastly more fluid than the Cast-Release-Move-Cast-Release command of her W on release. Compounded with the spell lock-out portion of the ability (which is gone now, thankfully) it made her annoyingly clunky, to the point where most discussion surrounding Taliyah was how frustrating her W was to use. Considering the game-changing map control she brought to the table with her ultimate, and her really high winrate among dedicated players, it's pretty telling when 90% of the topics were about her mechanical woes.

Inting Pillow2 votes

Yea I agree it feels so weird now

Lugg2 votes

I think you just need to get used to the change. I think it's pretty intuitive having played Vik and Rumble.

Poro Princess1 votes

I personally think the W changes destroyed the champion. She was perfectly easy to understand at the start. I could do combos with her in my first game. She was fine, it was rewarding and exciting. Now I can't even combo. Goodbye level 7 Taliyah, never playing her again because of this change.

Snu Snu1 votes

I really dislike the vector casting on her W as well. I got her to level 7, but now I don't think I'll play her as much anymore.

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