Heimer needs some changes

ROKXbjrAnV·Mar 11, 2015·3 votes·805 views

Thankfully, not many people play this no-talent-required champ, but when they do it irritates me. Not only does he take nearly zero skill to play, and not only do his turrets still wreck you when he zhonyas. his silly turrets can attack you and still do stupid damage AFTER he already dies. I don't understand how this can be considered fair considering he takes nearly no skill to use and has a crap ton of utility and stupid damage. " OH BUT HE HAZ NO ESCAPEZZZZ". Yeah right, try ganking a heimer with his turrets set up and you'll be the one needing to escape.

15 Comments

ZazushaMar 11, 20152 votes

"not many play him"

top win rate across all ranks in solo queue for the last month.

Majority of mid laners have the range/pock to kill his turrets. and they die easy to aoe damage.

Lil SoybeanMar 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

"not many play him"

top win rate across all ranks in solo queue for the last month.

Majority of mid laners have the range/pock to kill his turrets. and they die easy to aoe damage.

That's the point. So few play him that the few who do are generally very experienced heimerdinger mains. This is actually an observable trend. Regardless of a champion's balance state, watch their popularity. Usually, as they become more popular, their winrate drops. And the contrary is also true; usually, a very under-played champion has an above average winrate due simply to being played only by people who know the champion very well.

There are exceptions. When a champion is so bad and so underplayed that even their mains can't bring their winrate much higher (think something like Urgot, maybe.) Or when a champion is so blatantly broken that it's easy to stomp with him/her, even as a player who's just picked them up. (Think Ahri after her recent changes that shot her to 56-58% winrate, before the subsequent nerfs.)

ROKXbjrAnVMar 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VUqW1xmk,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-03-11T07:24:40.302+0000)

That's the point. So few play him that the few who do are generally very experienced heimerdinger mains. This is actually an observable trend. Regardless of a champion's balance state, watch their popularity. Usually, as they become more popular, their winrate drops. And the contrary is also true; usually, a very under-played champion has an above average winrate due simply to being played only by people who know the champion very well.

There are exceptions. When a champion is so bad and so underplayed that even their mains can't bring their winrate much higher (think something like Urgot, maybe.) Or when a champion is so blatantly broken that it's easy to stomp with him/her, even as a player who's just picked them up. (Think Ahri after her recent changes that shot her to 56-58% winrate, before the subsequent nerfs.)

If you think Ahri is easier to play than Heimer you seriously need to uninstall ASAP

Lil SoybeanMar 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If you think Ahri is easier to play than Heimer you seriously need to uninstall ASAP

That is not what I said. I'm saying that it was easy to stomp with her when she was broken, before her recent nerfs.

Granted, I personally think she's still broken. But I'm not talking about her skillcap. Her kit should reward you for playing well. Right after the changes that made her overbearingly powerful, and shot her to somewhere in the top winrates AND pickrates in the game, the people who played her well could dominate with her, while the people who played her very haphazardly, unsure of what to do, overextending, missing skillshots, etc. Could 1) dash right up the enemy and THEN shoot her charm skillshot from point-blank range, negating the whole meaning of it being a skillshot, or 2) way overextend and then still safely escape when ganked due to her quadruple mobility (Once she's 6) or her movement speed increase on her orb alone, pre-6.

Ironically, she still can do all of this, but her numbers have presumably been tuned to a point where she's slightly less faceroll and actually requires some strategic depth again, which I'm happy with.

The ADC WizardMar 11, 20152 votes

Not a thorough enough argument to really hold water on your discussion. Please come back with a better reason.

ROKXbjrAnVMar 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not a thorough enough argument to really hold water on your discussion. Please come back with a better reason.

Melee champs have ZERO chance against him except maybe zed. You cannot destroy his turrets without taking a crapton of poke damage, and you cannot all in him with his towers up or you will die since his turrets attack you even if he's already dead. I'm not asking for much, but how the eff is it fair for his turrets to kill you even after you kill him? It's worse than Karthus passive ffs since he doesn't need to aim anything

Lil SoybeanMar 11, 20151 votes

has a crap ton of utility and stupid damage.

Exactly how many champions in the game can you say that about? No, seriously? Like, 90% of them?

Mobile champions dominate, then someone focused on being stationary does well and you want them punished back into obscurity?

The irony is that he STILL isn't doing particularly well - he has too many counterpicks, and he certainly doesn't compare in the LCS where they focus on playing perfectly safe, low-risk high-reward burst assassin. ( Zed Leblanc )

You seriously think Heimer is an issue when we've got them dominating the midlane?

Seriously?

ROKXbjrAnVMar 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VUqW1xmk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-11T05:48:18.123+0000)

Exactly how many champions in the game can you say that about? No, seriously? Like, 90% of them?

Mobile champions dominate, then someone focused on being stationary does well and you want them punished back into obscurity?

The irony is that he STILL isn't doing particularly well - he has too many counterpicks, and he certainly doesn't compare in the LCS where they focus on playing perfectly safe, low-risk high-reward burst assassin. ( )

You seriously think Heimer is an issue when we've got them dominating the midlane?

Seriously?

Heimer is NOT stationary, he walks around his field of op turrets and if any melee champ tries to get into range to kill those turrets you will just get poked to death before you can do anything. And meanwhile he is tossing rockets and bombs and grenades at you so good luck getting even close to any of his turrets

Sassmast3rMar 11, 20153 votes

While I agree that, currently, LeBlanc and Zed are completely destroying mid lane, I DO feel for this dude about Heimerdinger. There is legitimately no counter excluding Syndra, but for some inexplicable reason people despise Syndra. I remember about a month or two ago, before Zed and Lee Sin were used that frequently, the struggle I had in hitting lvl 30 was ridiculous, because there was ALWAYS a Heimerdinger. Once I finally hit level 30, people stopped using him, but before then, not even LISSANDRA could handle him and Liss is pretty broken herself (another OP champion that inexplicably isn't used). Now, my skills were absolute shit back when I still used Lissandra and played Mid, but even now using her, regardless of how broken she is herself, I still cannot handle Heimerdinger. He is just too incredibly strong, and desperately needs a nerf. HOWEVER, if I were actually given the opportunity to nerf just ONE champion in the entire game, I would choose Yasuo without even hesitating. That piece of shit... nevermind, argument for another time.

TL;DR - LeBlanc and Zed ARE pretty OP themselves, but Heimerdinger is as well and we shouldn't forget about him.

EedatMar 11, 20152 votes

The irony is that he STILL isn't doing particularly well

You do realize he has the highest winrate out of all the champions currently? I'm not saying nerf the donger but hes doing quite well for himself

2000boxesMar 11, 20151 votes

i have tried ganking a heimer when his turrets are up it was a 5 second gank and i walked away with 75% hp and my mid laner got the kill and was at about 85-90% hp

3tysonMar 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

i have tried ganking a heimer when his turrets are up it was a 5 second gank and i walked away with 75% hp and my mid laner got the kill and was at about 85-90% hp

problem is in your post there mate dont try ganking him when his turrets are up if you are stupid enough to not take out his turrets you deserve to die.... ( in game :P )

its liike trying your best to catch nids max range spear and than complain about it doing to much damage or taking your sweeper over a field of teemo shrooms and than trying to walk over al of them you dont do that do you ? so why do you gank heimi when his turrets are up ?

its verry anoying when your team mate doesnt destroy his turrets while hes suposed to but its also verry anoying when your team mate lets nasus get his farm or feeds akali

2000boxesMar 11, 20151 votes

what do you mean the problem is in my post my laner got the kill we both had a high amount of hp left theres nothing wrong with that situation

OhOkYeaMar 11, 20151 votes

This is like the 4th nerf heimer thread in the last 24 hours. So many scrubs that walk into his turrets thinking they are just cosmetic.

If you're getting wrecked by heimer, it's because your team let him get fed. He's one of the easiest champs in the game to deny farm. This is like standing still when you're in an ADC's range. You're going to die. So then all ADCs need to have their damage nerfed so you can stand still in lane?

SookoMar 11, 20151 votes

Oh boo hoo an immobile mage that can make assassins less faceroll against him. Leave the Donger alone.

Truth being said he is heavily skillshot reliant. The only easy part of his kit are his turrets. He is actually skillshot reliant, he needs to manage his cooldowns (ult doesn't reset them like Rengar's Ferocity), he is super squishy, he inevitably pushes without having mobility to fall back if things go south, and his only CC is an easily missable stun.