Ashe buff (passive)

origiona·Jan 28, 2015·12 votes·1,476 views

What would you guys think if Ashe had an addition to her focus where she gets X movement speed everytime she crits? It has decent synergy with her current passive and scales up to being a good teamfight passive as the game goes on (gets more crit). Counterplay to this passive would be if a champion gets within X amount of range she would lose this movement speed and can only get more of it if she gets more distance between her and her opponent. It fits Ashe's theme of being a frost archer (relying on kiting) and also makes sense on her passive (It's hard to focus when someone is in your face).

Some changes could be X movespeed each crit stacking up to X amount and starting over if you don't get a crit wtihin its X duration. If it's necessary could remove the +3 gold per unit kill on hawkshot to remove a bit of power that doesn't really add anything to her kit.

22 Comments

VerinitasJan 28, 20154 votes

I agree with this post.

Moe Moe KyuunJan 29, 20152 votes

She has a horrible passive, why give a auto attacking champ a passive that only stacks up when not auto attacking? Isn't that backward as hell?

NorthernDruidJan 30, 20151 votes

To give her some benefit when she's not autoattacking, like when she's running to lane or when she's waiting to last hit, or running around in the late game.

The biggest problem I have with it (other than the fact that it feels like it robs her of the potential for a cooler passive that you get more use out of (or at least get use out of more often) is the long wait time before it starts stacking means it doesn't stack well enough in-between last hits.

BroreliaJan 28, 20151 votes

Her current passive is next to useless and should honestly be all around changed.

Say attack damage is increased by 4/8/12/16/20% when all enemy champs are more then 350 unites away at levels 1/5/9/13/17.

Yes I know this is basically a Drow Ranger ult passive but it would be effective for ashe while not making her over the top.

origionaJan 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Her current passive is next to useless and should honestly be all around changed.

Say attack damage ins increased by 4/8/12/16/20% when enemies are more then 350 unites away at levels 1/5/9/13/17.

Yes I know this is basically a Drow Ranger ult passive but it would be effective for ashe while not making her over the top.

Her current passive has some cool gameplay that is a big part of why I play Ashe. Makes her duelling stronger than you'd expect from the ECA from a decent distance away/bush into a guaranteed ie/shiv crit volley and potentially another crit making her ult 1v1ing pretty fun.(don't necessarily need those 2 items to be able to duel it's just pretty awesome synergy with items like that)

QuephaJan 28, 20151 votes

she's already absurdly good at kiting and her winrate is quite high. where would you take power away from her to justify this buff to her passive?

origionaJan 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

she's already absurdly good at kiting and her winrate is quite high. where would you take power away from her to justify this buff to her passive?

I wouldn't say absurdly good considering her base movement speed is very low(among the lowest tier in the game). Most champions can still get to her pretty easily. As for taking power away I think shes more due for a buff than just moving stats around. She gets 0 competitive play but still this isn't that big of a buff. It mostly affects teamfights anyway and it accentuates her strengths while still having a clear weakness.

QuephaJan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't say absurdly good considering her base movement speed is very low(among the lowest tier in the game). Most champions can still get to her pretty easily. As for taking power away I think shes more due for a buff than just moving stats around. She gets 0 competitive play but still this isn't that big of a buff. It mostly affects teamfights anyway and it accentuates her strengths while still having a clear weakness.

ashe is so good at kiting that she is cited as the reason so many champions have dashes nowadays. and again, her winrate is really good, a buff that would make her viable in pro play would mean she would downright dominate solo queue.

you're just wrong about it being a small buff, giving someone with permaslows and low cooldown slows on multiple targets in a big aoe a speed boost on top of that is simply unwise.

origionaJan 28, 20153 votes

{quoted}

ashe is so good at kiting that she is cited as the reason so many champions have dashes nowadays. and again, her winrate is really good, a buff that would make her viable in pro play would mean she would downright dominate solo queue.

you're just wrong about it being a small buff, giving someone with permaslows and low cooldown slows on multiple targets in a big aoe a speed boost on top of that is simply unwise.

Yes, but we are talking about the present where all those champions made with those gap closers now exist and it's very difficult to kite jarvan/lee sin/rengar/khazix/reksai/gnar/etc.. many other adc's kite better due to having a more reliable way to do it(dashing etc). As for dominating solo queue that really sounds far off.. I mean Graves/Corki/Vayne/Lucian are the types of adc's that dominate solo queue. Win rates don't mean everything either there's quite a lot of champions I don't consider particularly amazing with even higher winrates.

QuephaJan 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but we are talking about the present where all those champions made with those gap closers now exist and it's very difficult to kite jarvan/lee sin/rengar/khazix/reksai/gnar/etc.. many other adc's kite better due to having a more reliable way to do it(dashing etc). As for dominating solo queue that really sounds far off.. I mean Graves/Corki/Vayne/Lucian are the types of adc's that dominate solo queue. Win rates don't mean everything either there's quite a lot of champions I don't consider particularly amazing with even higher winrates.

win rate was pretty much the only reason warwick was considered overpowered. even if you don't consider the champions amazing doesn't change the fact that they win more games than most others.

ParadiddledJan 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

win rate was pretty much the only reason warwick was considered overpowered. even if you don't consider the champions amazing doesn't change the fact that they win more games than most others.

By win rate, you're talking about him insta-gibbing carries with just his ult and a Skirmisher's Sabre, right? He was also near 100% pick or ban in competitive play during that time period, too.

ParadiddledJan 29, 20151 votes

I can see where you're coming from. I find it absurdly easy to pick off Ashe in teamfights. This proposed change would better reward her for positioning well, too.

AeariyionJan 29, 20151 votes

Yeah I myself played her alot, yeah she can kite for days but all in all with todays newer champions she is getting less and less viable. Wouldn't mind seeing something like this added in maybe start seeing her a lil more ;3

NorthernDruidJan 29, 20151 votes

I'd like to see either a small buff or change to her passive itself, or an active movespeed boost as part of her kit.

There's mainly three interesting buffs to her passive I'd love to see right now.

Shorter time to start stacking, so it's easier to build it up in-between last hits and also easier to synergize with hit-and-run pokes later in the game.
Her stacks doesn't reset if she kills a minion with the crit. (farm or trade decision, and improved last hitting, uncertain about how balanced this would actually be)
Stacking speed increases with built crit%, instead of starting point being equal to it. This combined with the shorter cooldown on her stacking would make hit&run play very interesting, it would also allow her to benefit more greatly from smaller sources of crit% like Triforce and Youmuu's Ghostblade.

Ashe's passive lacks synergy with the rest of her kit, and especially the ADC playstyle of constantly hit things, and it takes too long to stack up the crit at max lvl compared to how quickly she can dish out the crits with a bit of attack speed like any other adc out there.

origionaJan 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'd like to see either a small buff or change to her passive itself, or an active movespeed boost as part of her kit.

There's mainly three interesting buffs to her passive I'd love to see right now.

Shorter time to start stacking, so it's easier to build it up in-between last hits and also easier to synergize with hit-and-run pokes later in the game.

Her stacks doesn't reset if she kills a minion with the crit. (farm or trade decision, and improved last hitting, uncertain about how balanced this would actually be)

Stacking speed increases with built crit%, instead of starting point being equal to it. This combined with the shorter cooldown on her stacking would make hit&run play very interesting, it would also allow her to benefit more greatly from smaller sources of crit% like Triforce and Youmuu's Ghostblade.

Ashe's passive lacks synergy with the rest of her kit, and especially the ADC playstyle of constantly hit things, and it takes too long to stack up the crit at max lvl compared to how quickly she can dish out the crits with a bit of attack speed like any other adc out there.

I think her passive is fine as is. It's up for the start of a teamfight, getting to lane and even a couple procs in the lane. In terms of raw power it's not the most powerful passive by any means but I feel it's enjoyable to use and serves it's purpose. I personally believe the main thing she really needs is a bit more mobility and I feel my idea synergizes with the current passive while also accenting her playstyle.

NorthernDruidJan 30, 20151 votes

I agree mostly, but i think it's too clunky for what is essentially a starter champion (it's the tutorial champion for crying out loud). And it's very much something that falls off the farther you get into the game, ending up only being relevant for letting your Statikk Shiv crit for certain at the beginning of the teamfight (which is admittedly kinda neat).

The problem with that useage is however that anyone with a SS can do that. Ashe just knows she will. And just in general, I think that a passive which declines so massively in usefulness later in the game has issues.

Changes to how much faster it stacks with extra crit% and how quickly it starts stacking, would make hit&run play much more relevant for her, because of how safely she can do it, especially in the mid-game where it's more skirmishes.

Shorter wait time before starting to stack would also make it easier to use properly in lane (even 0.5 shorter would make it a lot easier to manage).

hmm... looking up on it, to have any tangible effect you'd need to have crit% to stack gain rate pretty high actually, at like 1/3 or 1/2 rate. 'Cause at 1/4 of the crit% adding to stack speed it seems you get pretty damn similar results as on live.

At least by my maths.

Shaving off 1 second wait time does wonders though.

origiona1Jan 30, 20151 votes

I just don't really think doing anything to the passive could really affect teamfights however you do it. Unless it regenerates during combat which would be tricky to do in itself and honestly sounds like a clunky mechanic that way. Regardless her passive is one of the things that I really like about the champion and I'm fine with it in it's current state (the wait for crit portion). I get a lot of solo kills mid game ulting with your focus burst on anyone that feels alone and isn't super tanky. It's actually quite effective I recommend trying it it makes the passive feel a lot better and has a playstyle tied to it on its own.(just giving a bit of reasoning why I defend the passive in its current state I really feel like it's a ton of fun and it's part of what hooked me to the champion)

NorthernDruidJan 30, 20151 votes

Yeah, it'd need a real oerhaul to keep beng effective in teamfights, so i'd rather focus on making it good in the parts of the game where it's supposed to feel good. My main difficulty using it is as said before that it takes too long to stack in-between last hits.

I also think that it would help with the situations where you wanna hit&run or clear a wave and then hold for a bit and engage when the enemy comes for you.

As I said I think it's mostly fine, not the best it could be but fine, just slightly too clunky in excecution for a beginner champion.

origiona1Feb 5, 20151 votes

bump