The issue surrounding Taliyah's W and playstyle altogether.

inplane··11 votes·1,388 views

EDIT: For whoever reads through my very long post, please comment and tell us what you think on the issue. Every response helps and I want Riot to see and resolve these issues immediately.

I've already written lotsa things, but I'll quote myself from one of the other Discussions:

{quoted}

People need to understand that Vector Casting isn't working for Taliyah because the way it's designed doesn't suit her W. It's radius indicator was made to fit Rumble's R and Viktor's E line-based skillshots, not Taliyah's W circle-based skillshot. It forces Taliyah players to guess where their W would hit instead of carefully planning with a radius indicator.

As it stands right now, she needs a completely different casting paradigm. The current one is unclear, buggy, and lacks the freedom of the previous W.

So I mentioned that she needs a completely different casting paradigm, so how about this one:

{quoted}

I say remove the Vector Casting paradigm altogether because it doesn't fit Taliyah at all.

Normal cast should make the skill activate as soon as left click is held down. When held down, you should be able to drag into the direction you want to throw while the skill is being cast. If not held down and instead released early, the skill will just simply knock the target location upwards. This would give the flowing feeling to the people who wanted Vector Casting controls, but still gives her old mains a chance at her older playstyle.

Now I know a lot of you are thinking "What do you know you scrubby Plat! I bet you couldn't perform well with Taliyah in the first place!" Well it's not only myself. Lots of other people who played Taliyah a lot are concerned about this W change and how her playstyle is starting to drift away from being a Disruption mage.

Back in ye olden days, Taliyah had to slow with E (or Q if you had Rylais) and then throw them in with W. Lots of people said this was clunky and hated it, but I found that this was what made Taliyah Taliyah, a teenage girl who is still trying to control her powers. Riot mentioned that they wanted her to feel like a champ who wasn't in complete control, which was shown in her clunky playstyle.

Despite this, I found her kit is able to weave into each other very well. Q synergized well with her movement speed-based playstyle. Her E and W were made for each other. If someone ran out of the way of Q, W would be able to knock them back into it. If she wanted to play it out safe, she can simply knock people upwards and get a clear shot at whoever is caught in it.

Now, however, she can throw people into her E before the enemy even sees it deployed. In addition to that, her W can no longer knock people upwards anymore due to the Vector Casting paradigm. I have nothing against making her feel more fluid to play through changing her W up a bit, but this changes her to play more like a Combo mage (similar to Syndra, Lux, Azir, Orianna, and Anivia), something we already have a lot of. Her identity as a Disruption mage is disappearing because of the lockout removal. Surely we can preserve her original playstyle a little bit more without making her play too... streamline.

I don't believe we should revert her W nor should we live with the current iteration of her W. Changing it up is the best thing we can do because her playerbase is very divided currently.

20 Comments

InfinitexMortal2 votes

TY i hope Riot listens to its players for once and changes it back the new casting system feels horrible on her and has hurt my ability to use her a lot. I barely ever saw anyone play her before the w change and now i never see her. Ive even spotted a yorick player but no more talis :,(

inplane1 votes

{quoted}

TY i hope Riot listens to its players for once and changes it back the new casting system feels horrible on her and has hurt my ability to use her a lot. I barely ever saw anyone play her before the w change and now i never see her. Ive even spotted a yorick player but no more talis :,(

Changing it back would just anger the people in Zenon's topic made 2 weeks ago: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1bunGEHs-taliyah-changes-for-614

That's why I suggested tweaking instead of reverting it. A toggle option would work too, but that's a different story.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

{quoted}

Changing it back would just anger the people in Zenon's topic made 2 weeks ago: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1bunGEHs-taliyah-changes-for-614

That's why I suggested tweaking instead of reverting it. A toggle option would work too, but that's a different story.

A toggle would be pretty hard to code in with the current engine,and even if it did it'd leave taliyah pretty buggy

inplane1 votes

{quoted}

A toggle would be pretty hard to code in with the current engine,and even if it did it'd leave taliyah pretty buggy

Would it? The furthest I've went with coding is Python, so I wouldn't really know how toggling options would work lol.

Also yeah. Some other people have expressed their feelings about the W and it's much worse than just getting kicked in the nuts after a marathon.

Testificate2 votes

To everyone who reads this and cares, never stop bringing this up, while i dont agree with inplane entirely and would love the old casting method, pretty much anything i can imagine would be better than vector casting. we loved taliyah the way she was dammit, change isn't always a good thing riot give us our taliyah back you monsters!

inplane2 votes

{quoted}

To everyone who reads this and cares, never stop bringing this up, while i dont agree with inplane entirely and would love the old casting method, pretty much anything i can imagine would be better than vector casting. we loved taliyah the way she was dammit, change isn't always a good thing riot give us our taliyah back you monsters!

I really doubt a lot of people care because I've brought up legitimate and valid points so rebutting would be hard. That and no one really cares for Taliyah since this community is quite selfish by nature (no offense). As long as their precious main isn't tampered with, they don't give a shit about other champs.

Testificate1 votes

Thats why i stressed that those of us who do care don't stop caring. wishful thinking wont change it back, making sure riot notices our pleas just might.

Calabok2 votes

not gonna change back. its fine as it is.

inplane1 votes

{quoted}

not gonna change back. its fine as it is.

Can you enlighten us a little bit more? How do you feel about her new W and the way it's cast compared to the previous iteration?

I've seen lots of people say "it's fine because it allows her to cast quicker", but never really explained it as it comes out more of a "on paper" thought than an actual play-tested thought.

Calabok2 votes

I think the balance team is doing fine and to keep up the good work.

Calabok1 votes

i'm winning more against her after the change. LOL

inplane2 votes

{quoted}

i'm winning more against her after the change. LOL

So... It's more of a personal benefit thing? Ah.

Calabok2 votes

{quoted}

So... It's more of a personal benefit thing? Ah.

Same with you.

inplane2 votes

{quoted}

Same with you.

Well yeah. When is it not lol. I'm also doing it for the sake of everyone else. A lot of people don't like this stiff change and it really messes with Tali's playstyle.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

You know what the change feels like?

Running a marathon,only to be kicked in the nuts when you reach the finish line

Calabok1 votes

sure whatever.

inplane1 votes

{quoted}

sure whatever.

So... You got any insight on her current W compared to her older W? Any preferred changes or something?

ABCDEFGHIJK1 votes

YES, JUST REVERT THE OLD W AND LEAVE HER ALONE. She was perfect how she was.

inplane1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abdul Hassan,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Us8if4Pp,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-07-20T18:20:08.785+0000)

YES, JUST REVERT THE OLD W AND LEAVE HER ALONE. She was perfect how she was.

Seems like reverting it would make the most amount of people happy. I haven't seen anybody use Taliyah except for one of my friends after patch 6.14 lol.

I wouldn't call her perfect though. She was clunky, but that's what defined her as a champ: An inexperienced Disruption mage who had to position correctly.

ABCDEFGHIJK1 votes

Yes, You can do some research on the other forums and see, that the reversion would be the best possible choice.

By Perfect I mean my personal opinion, that's true what You said [not everyone likes being silenced for 0,75 seconds after using W], but it gave her the gameplay-difficulty and requirement to put some effort in practicing her in order to play her well enough. And, what does Riot do? In sake of the new players crying because something is too hard, they change (practically) the entire mechanics of W, making Taliyah's mains begin the champion-learning process once more. Just no.

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