I constantly find myself completely obsolete on the botlane. Even if i win early game i'll be completely stomped once 
or 
reach level 6. Why can they literally one shot a carry, with only a support item in the bag? Moreover they finish the game with first or second best damage in team over and over again. It really kills any incetive to play adc [sg-soraka]
Netorare22 votesMages became "supports" thanks to assassins bullshit lethality.
WrÆth5 votesDon't pin this shit on assassins, this has nothing to do with them. Base damage in this game is just too high, so some mages abuse it botlane.
Escheton9 votesIt's also that enchanters and tanks keep getting nerfed so mages become the better option, even if you don't like the playstyle. It's not just autofilled mids doing this.
SkepticalxLlama2 votesIt's also that enchanters and tanks keep getting nerfed so mages become the better option, even if you don't like the playstyle. It's not just autofilled mids doing this.
As a supp main it hurts but ya this is true. I main 
but was one a losing streak for a couple of games switched over to lux because i was annoyed and i won the next game (and my promos hell yeah). It works more often than most would like to admit. Is it shitty that mages do better than traditional supps? Hell ya. Is it gonna change? Nope. Find your counter to them and just keep trying
[slayer-jinx-catface]
boricCentaur115 votesRiot should probably just get rid of mage supports and put them into mid.
DracosKasu2 votesHard to do, if they want to remove them they will need to reduce their CC which is why they can support well and also why they are useful in teamfight.
Votable Jester6 votesPart of why they aren't played mid is that they're also super vulnerable. In bot lane they at least always have the adc around to help.
Play Zyra mid and you're dead if you ever miss your E, and her Q isn't shaped very well for waveclear.
LordGeovanni2 votesZyra's Q is great for wave clear you can clear the back of the wave first while putting Plants there to zone the enemy out or you can just walk to the side of the lane and catch both the back and the front. it shouldnt be a problem if you use any wards at all
Cloud2731 votesRiot should probably just get rid of mage supports and put them into mid.
How exactly do you get rid of mage supports? If they nerf "support" Xerath for instance that just makes mid Xerath weaker. Then months later Riot will buff him again because people will complain Xerath sucks, and then we have the problem all over again. The only solution to the problem is to buff enchanters. That way AP mids can continue to be strong without being too oppressive for bot.
Exin02 votesHow exactly do you get rid of mage supports? If they nerf "support" Xerath for instance that just makes mid Xerath weaker. Then months later Riot will buff him again because people will complain Xerath sucks, and then we have the problem all over again. The only solution to the problem is to buff enchanters. That way AP mids can continue to be strong without being too oppressive for bot.
only solution is make real support viable again
Aseraan2 votesSpaming heal and shields all day and night is what real supps does.
LordGeovanni3 votesNO support spams heals except soraka and taric because they are the only ones with low enough cooldown to be considered spamming. But their heal power has been over nerfed for their constant healing which riot forced them into. Taric has always had it but its been nerfed for its potiental on healing 5 people but when you brick up why Xerath's hit does so much damage with its potiential to hit 5 people everyones like 'but but but its not likely that the entire enemy team will line up for him to get a 5 man q.' but its far more likely and xerath can even cause it to happen unlike your entire team standing in 2 small circles to get healed.
ModCaliCoastReplay1 votesNO support spams heals except soraka and taric because they are the only ones with low enough cooldown to be considered spamming. But their heal power has been over nerfed for their constant healing which riot forced them into. Taric has always had it but its been nerfed for its potiental on healing 5 people but when you brick up why Xerath's hit does so much damage with its potiential to hit 5 people everyones like 'but but but its not likely that the entire enemy team will line up for him to get a 5 man q.' but its far more likely and xerath can even cause it to happen unlike your entire team standing in 2 small circles to get healed.
can also spam heals on an early 
with Manaflow Band/Klepto, and 
later on makes her one of the hardest scaling supports in the game. The deathball is real. She can cast freely for minutes at a time once she gets up to 1500-1600 mana and can get kills if you can get her to 
too.
LordGeovanni2 votesBut we not gonna talk about how they cut her heal and made it puny when they shifted some of that power into providing a shield which was made small because it was aoe. Hard scaling with a 25% ap ratio heal
ModCaliCoastReplay1 votesBut we not gonna talk about how they cut her heal and made it puny when they shifted some of that power into providing a shield which was made small because it was aoe. Hard scaling
I actually don't think is in a bad place at all. She has a few semi-weak early levels and high mana costs as currently tuned, and I think that is fair because if you get her an early she is one of the hardest-scaling late game supports in the game.
I am M6 working on M7 with her, and to me it often feels unfair to the enemy team when I am on a large lead. All of her spells are good and her cooldowns are insanely low. All of her damage is 100% guaranteed within its range, on point-and-click autoattacks or a literal press-one-button spell with no skillshots required on a spammable 3-second late-game cooldown. She has a major two-champion heal that gives a spammable team shield on a 4-second late game cooldown. She has escapability through a major movespeed buff on 6-second late game cooldown. She has an ultimate that's a team stun once per minute late game. And her technicals are not difficult as League mechanics go - any champion is a difficult pilot at a high skill level, but isn't exactly 
, she's a one-difficulty champ who was designed as a forgiving support for newer players.
So I think if she weren't as weak early as she is she'd be absolutely oppressive, because she's pretty oppressive now when played correctly.
Her natural late-game formation is the deathball, and it would be really neat to see some pro teams take a chance on her with some of the 
/
-style late game deathball comps that were popular mid-Season 8 in some scrims or early matches in Season 9.
LordGeovanni1 votesone of the best utility supports =/= strong heals or even strong in general.
Aseraan1 votesOh sry by spam i wanted to say stands next to tower and healing the adc every time he she isnt full. Anyway i will not go into hypotesis like the chance of a xerath q hitting every enemy at onec.
Where i stand is ap supps are far more interactive and dangerous to play than a healer/shielder cuz if i want to build dame i have to keep poking or i will fall down quick not even talking about how i have little to no excape if i get caught out.
Where is if i say playing a healer/shileder picking coin and then afk the whole game and still having 30 assist.
LordGeovanni1 votesAn ap support will be in more danger versus an ap support than versus a healer support and healer supports will be in more danger versus an ap support than versus a healer support. Healers are supposed to be the ultimate back line of fights even more so than any mage or adc. you can circumvent this by making a front liner with good healing like Old taric or the rune font of life. Healers are supposed to punsh any other champion into a more stable place further up than if they didnt have a healer. The thing is With damage so high there is no point in putting healing or shielding into a front liner which is why it all goes into the adc or mage because by keeping them up they instagib more things more reliably. which wins fights versus a fighter/ tank getting 2 more auto attacks in while their spells are still on cooldown and they are easily focusable.
Another reason why healers dont want to get into range to interact is that riot absolutely shreds their base defenses and gives them no good defensive options (almost all their items being defensive doesnt make those options good) which means one combo from that 'interactive' ap support with super low mana costs and cooldown will kill them every time thus why would you want to walk into that.
Aseraan1 votesThis is all nice and all but in game i still face greedy utility supports who wants to be a dps and builds ap regardless the IDEA behind the role.
LordGeovanni1 votesAp items have more value and scale them harder. you can go for cheaper items (that dont help you by being cheaper because you will still get them behind a carry) or you can go for items that scale your skills effectiveness. Most support items despite have really nice sounding effects for an adc to have put on them dont help supports or keep them alive despite most if not all of the items stats being shoved into defense . Real defensive items are shit psuedo defensive items are a noob trap. The idea behind the role is to function without taking lane farm that is the only requirement behind the role. Not baby sitting anyone. People who play healers usually want to see their big impact heal/shield just like adcs and mages see their big impact damage but then mages and adcs just end up complaining despite the long cooldowns or low effectiveness of the heal/ shield. that require multiple casts before even being noticeable. Ap helps with that while also helping them with their damage and damage helps them with self defense (adcs and mages would know alot about that where they always cry how are they supposed to defend themselves if they cant instagib people as if their 500 range 480 movement speed is nothing.)
Aseraan1 votesSo ap helps them deal damage and have better stats on the heal shield thats already doing 2 thing than why am i as the pure apc supp should be cripled for doing one thing only wich is me dealing damage.
LordGeovanni1 votesbecause your one thing is balanced at the rate of doing 5 things if you want to use that example and with that damage you also do cc which you ignored for some reason that app ap supports have actually ap damage dealing supports have the absolute longest cc in barring the one assassin (which was nerfed out of being a support which was his best role on release) the game and have them on shorter cooldowns than most champions have cc skills and dont suffer the lesser damage that other champions including supports like soraka taric janna and sona have for daring to possess cc.
Escheton1 votesIf you have AP scaling on your Shield ability. While also having an AP scaling damage ability. Why not generally build AP to buff both?
If the adc is fed early, focus on cheap shielding items to push the win. But otherwise, AP seems the wise choice.
Aseraan1 votesMy point is:
-me playing as a mage supp have better all in and better poke -enemy supp whos playing a utility supp and still wants to go full ap
=me destroying the enemy supp every time he/she tries to pke for the support item gold where is i am obviusly stronger and he/she still tries to wich makes absolute no sense
Escheton1 votesMy point is:
-me playing as a mage supp have better all in and better poke -enemy supp whos playing a utility supp and still wants to go full ap
=me destroying the enemy supp every time he/she tries to pke for the support item gold where is i am obviusly stronger and he/she still tries to wich makes absolute no sense
The other option would have been coin, and as you describe it, they would be heavily zoned off their income if they do.
Further, with how dynamic botlane is, I find it hard to believe they can't get some poke down.
Aseraan1 votesSure there is some trading but still whit no jungle aid a utility supp have no chance vs a mage supp and thats fine by me, if i pikc an utility supp i will not try to out dps a velkoz supp.
disregardable11 votesa couple games ago I faced a Xerath
that went 0/14
and still did 2/3rds my HP
EmpressOfBeauty8 votesa couple games ago I faced a Xerath
that went 0/14
and still did 2/3rds my HP
What about his assists? K/D alone isn't always a factor in someone's damage especially a support if they poke you down and get the gold they need for stronger items.
ØrnnToGetTrolleÐ11 votesstats dont reduce damage
Starcraft243ver1 votesHe was 2-16-14 and had 120 CS.
disregardable1 voteshe was 0/14 when he hit me 2/3rds of my HP.
he sniped 2 kills right at the end of the game.
Starcraft243ver1 votesa 0/2000/0 Zed will OS you is he has 500 CS, because he'll be full stuff.
Stop looking at kills, they are irrevelant.
If you shutdown 3 people worth 1000 gold bounty, you have got the same gold as someone who killed 30 times opponents worth 100 gold because they died too much.
You have 3 kills he has 30, yet you have the same amount of gold.
KILLS - ARE - NOT - REVELANT
disregardable1 votesthey are when you have no kills and no cs and still do a stupid amount of damage because immobility lul
H1de on blue11 votesI agree the entire team should play around the ADC every game and anything else makes the game unfair to the ADC.
I selected Attack Damage CARRRY I'm the only one allowed to be a carry. It's in my role title, the game is all about me.
Also, let's not stop at Mage "supports" let's include Pyke too. Also, Top laners and Junglers should be tanks every game Also, Mid should play Lulu, Karma and Zilean every game.
IAmTheBigFast1 votesi havent slept for 48 hours so if you are ironic about this u know why i didnt get it but why are you taking the piss of the guy he has a point. I get the thing u are saying being like I PICKED THE CARRY ONLY I CAN DO DMG but still mages like these are made to oneshot and it makes you practicly useless since hiding behind your allies isnt really going to help most of the time (zyra and brand being able to get u however they want since ur team cant rly block it and they dont rly have to cc you to kill you)it has gotten to the point where you cant rly go some of the tradinional adc's (i mean the high dmg but easy to kill unless u have teammates)since teammates cant really do much about it and neither can you.I get the point like there should be people who can stop the carry but thing is they should be able to stop the carry not make him completly useless since if u try to get into the range where you can actually hit them well ur dead,i dont want the carries to be unstoppable hell no i dont want to have those champs deleted i dont wanna get the champs who can shut down the carry to be out if u think thats the mindset people like me or him have but it shouldnt be allowed to make you completly useless because it completly removes the point of a ranged attack damage character.
Mafia LeBlanc10 votesYou can have marksmen, mages, assassins, tanks, supports, and god knows what else all viable in every lane. Why is it that supports are the one role where only a select few champion roles are deemed viable? This kind of reasoning is why no one wants to play support and why it is regarded as irrelevent in terms of carrying a team.
TeCoolMage2 votesThis exactly. Keep mages viable in support but make supports viable in solo lanes.
MrFawknSunshine2 voteswell in the past if a support champ is viable in a solo lane they are over tuned and over powered. this is why riot is having a hard time balancing pyke cuz he is over tuned as a support when he goes mid he is broken. and you can go back to previous season of things like LULU mid/top , alistar jungle back in the day.
the reason certain mages work and have moved to support is 1 they have base damages/scalings that they can still be effective with less gold. 2 something lacking in their kits dont make them viable in solo/mid lane and this is mainly due to meta shifts. this happen with annie, brand, morg, karma, zyra.
zAntiM86 votesI mean hey, just play 
as a "botlane carry" and you´re good to go!
Give em a chance. I didn´t believe leaving my precious marksmen down after sticking with them through good and bad times would make myself feel better, however if you view the game from another perspective, why not simply stomp games without needing to have any sort of talent to do so?
I´ve grown to like oneshotting three people at a time whilst being 2/6 as .
Even besides the fact I absolutely hated the champion before trying him out.
Bobloser35554 votesHeimer is pretty funny thou
SociopathFriend6 votesBro you lost matches against an unconventional support and then in the same hour made a Board post?
This is either a response to the full ap Malphite support game or the Xerath support game. Both of which seem to have reamed you and your entire team.
Neither of which are the champions you are complaining about.
SociaI Justice2 votesdoesn't mean that brand and zyra aren't overtuned which is what op is posting about, both sitting at 53% wr.
P0IS0N IVY2 votesBrand and Zyra have high winrates atm because all other squishy supports pretty much suck. They do so much damage that enchanters are rendered useless.
SociaI Justice1 votesso uhhh ... why are they good against tank supports then?
Aseraan1 votesIDk becasue brand has % hp damage thats not even a good bait.
SociaI Justice1 votesrhetorical question buddy, the guy was implying they are only good because they destroy enchanters but they destroy every other type of support.
P0IS0N IVY1 votesPlease quote where I said they're good because they destroy enchanters.
SociaI Justice2 votesyou said their win ratios are high because other squishy supports are useless and they do so much damage enchanters are useless against them, who are other squishy supports other than enchanters and mages?
Support 4 Lyfe4 votesAtleast Zyra's skill are all skillshots and she scales like shit, but FUCK Brand, 2 point and click abilities that both deal tons of damage, have low cooldown and deal 12% of your maximum hp and to anyone standing around you, he also scales incredibly strong because his passive scales with ap and level, he's absolutely disgusting, I literally started perma-banning him.
WøOxer2 votesAtleast Zyra's skill are all skillshots and she scales like shit, but FUCK Brand, 2 point and click abilities that both deal tons of damage, have low cooldown and deal 12% of your maximum hp and to anyone standing around you, he also scales incredibly strong because his passive scales with ap and level, he's absolutely disgusting, I literally started perma-banning him.
When I made topic ~8 months ago that Brand is busted at bot lane I got downvoted and called biggest retar'd in the universe because Brand is legit and takes skills to play.
