Boards›Gameplay

Would the game REALLY be that bad if Assassins were removed?

DiamondStef··5 votes·1,696 views

I mean, if you deleted the ENTIRE Assassin class from the game and their items, so bye bye item 3147 (AD Deathfire Touch - Riot likes to pretend it isn't but Deathfire used to have exactly the same active but for AP and that was considered "unhealthy"), how much would the game change.

I mean, would it REALLY be that different. Mages would still be able to counter ADC's and Tanks would also counter ADC's because of ADC's natural squishness so the game would effectively still be balanced, if not MORE SO then it is now.

I really do not see the point of assassins, they seem to be very shoehorned into the game when their presence is not required to actually win the game. Yes, they kill people but they cannot provide the CC that mages can, or the durability of tanks so effectively they are forced into the meta when they do not effectively have to be here at all.

You could take all assassins out of the game tomorrow and this game really would not change much because Assassins DON'T have a solid counter or a solid benefit like the other classes do. Their only role is to "get fed" and "snowball" which is what most AD Bruiser champions can already do anyway.

If you took them out of the game, nobody that isn't an assassin main would notice or even care, I suspect.

Would probably make for a healthier community as well... very little cheese deaths that were not the direct mistake of the person playing.

If Riot could actually answer this for me... If we took them out tomorrow, how much would the game be effected by it. I don't believe it would be all that much, all the assassin "mains" would move onto playing high mobility mages like Ahri, I imagine.

I am NOT saying this to have a dig at assassin players. I just cannot see WHY they are useful, most only have kill potential and nothing else, they bring NOTHING to support their team.

OH AND DON'T JUST VOTE THIS DOWN WITHOUT GIVING A REASON, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE AN ASSASSIN MAIN AND YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE OPENLY TALKING ABOUT THIS. Sheeze... some people.

32 Comments

1 800 MID LANE2 votes

Deathfire Grasp*

Removing a whole class would completely change how the game would need to be balanced because you no longer would have anyone to dive to their backline and nuke an ADC. That would make ADCs 10x stronger than they already are, and we all know how fun that would be. Literally every champion that's supposed to deal any amount of sustained damage would need gutted. Vayne would be pick or ban. BotRK would be the "game over" item. The game would come down to whoever can shred tanks best and/or whoever has the balls to not bother with them on their team.

Lauchmelder1 votes

I still don't understand why Riot had to remove DFG just to Change it into an AD item and release it as item 3147

1 800 MID LANE1 votes

In all honesty, I don't notice the item all that much. If they're ahead, they kill me before it procs. If they're even with me, they kill me before it procs. If they're behind, I sit there and laugh because they still kill me before it procs.

Lauchmelder1 votes

"But assassins are supposed to kill you." Kill yes, but at least give us some counterplay.

1 800 MID LANE1 votes

See, the counterplay isn't so much my problem. I mean, it is, but it's not the WHOLE concern for me.

My issue is that no matter how hard you shut them down in lane by denying CS, roams and/or kills, they never seem to be behind. Sure, if they're behind it's a little more interesting to not get melted by Zed without even using his ult, but what I said before was jokingly serious. If they're behind, they still kill anything but a tank before the passive of the item even goes to any use. If they're even somewhat ahead, god help us all.

Assassins are supposed to be high-risk, high-reward, but the risk seems minimal with the reward being higher than a lot of other champions in the game. Unless they're on your team, of course. If they're on your team, they're STILL the strongest person on the enemy team.

BattleOoze2 votes

They already explained the reasoning behind the new item. IE is for adcs, DC is for ap mages, and DB is for AD assassins. It's to make assassins do their job better in general since they are lack luster vs tanks in general.

Lauchmelder1 votes

With the difference that IE and DC amplify stats and DB works as an execute

BattleOoze2 votes

DB amplifies burst. DB gives assassins the ability to nuke tanks if need be, which wasn't easy in many cases. Look at it this way; Deathcap increases overall AP for a huge spike in damage, and ratios overall. Infinity Edge increase auto attack crit damage to do 50% more with their autos, which thus increases their damage output. Duskblade does damage based on missing health, which is only useful for people who burst someone down. It increases a champions damage overall, AND helps them pop whoever they go for. That is what makes it special. Deathcap has 30% increase in overall AP, Infinity Edge gives 50% damage increase in critical strikes, and Duskblade increases burst damage for assassins. I think it was a fine addition to the game. It's not abusive where people can build it on any champion and it be effective. For the sake of an argument you can say that DB is more universal in the sense that AD champs now have 2 items to choose from (the other being IE), but it's only good for champs that are looking to burst targets down in seconds.

Lauchmelder1 votes

Don't get me wrong here, I agree with those points, but imo DB is just an item that makes killing fulltanks easier now, something an assassin shouldn't be able to do. Look at it this way:

Assassins counter squishy AD/AP champions -> Tanks counter Assassins -> DPS (mostly ranged in form of an ADC) counter tanks

This is how it should be. However DB makes it too easy to kill tanks as an assassin due to the %missing health variable. It wouldn't be a problem in a 1v1, however it's a problem in a teambased gamemode. The %missing health variable is just that.

It should be %damage done by the user in the last 2 seconds instead of %missing hp because as of now no matter how hard an assassin lost, he can just AA someone once when on low hp and that target dies (if 25% of missing hp is more than the targets current hp obviously).

Duskblade basically is too forgiving for assassins that lost lane hard.

BattleOoze1 votes

You know what, I actually see what you are saying and I agree. I'm interested to see if making it like Zed's ult would make a difference. Which kind of sucks that it has a close resemblance may I add.

Kãtãrinã3 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UiATobuN,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-02-25T09:48:53.889+0000)

I still don't understand why Riot had to remove DFG just to Change it into an AD item and release it as item 3147

because DFG was an active and you click a button and it goes, Dusk on the other hand has a LONGER CD, you DO NOT choose when it goes off (you auto it auto marks them regardless if you wanted to mark them) and dusk doesn't amplify all incoming damage, its an execute

Lauchmelder1 votes

I'm still saying that if Assassins are allowed to have Duskblade then AP champs should have DFG.

DiamondStef1 votes

There are PLENTY of champions that are capable of diving the backline, assassins don't have the monopoly of that. Lissandra, Ahri. Fiddlesticks are all capable of easily getting into the backline. Assassins are not the only class that can do that so I fail to see your point.

1 800 MID LANE1 votes

But they do have the monopoly of that. Very few champions that aren't assassins can do that without being nuked immediately after getting a kill. Those three are included.

Oh, and Ahri is an assassin.

BattleOoze1 votes

I fail to see your point on why AD assassins should be removed from the game. Fuck it, lets remove AP assassins. No no lets go further, any game that has assassins in it should be removed because YOU don't like it. There we go, much better. Also, you failed to assess his other point regarding tanks. You have to look at the game as a whole when removing something entirely (removing DFG as an example). They needed to buff some champions because of it, and it was a nerf to the whole "100-0 a squishy or nuke a tank heavily" niche the item had. Having 2 items for AP's to amplify their damage is an overload of power.

Kãtãrinã1 votes

{quoted}

There are PLENTY of champions that are capable of diving the backline, assassins don't have the monopoly of that. Lissandra, Ahri. Fiddlesticks are all capable of easily getting into the backline. Assassins are not the only class that can do that so I fail to see your point.

Cause assassins are healthy? plenty of games have assassins in them, its a type of playstyle it is like rock, paper, scissors type of deal. I could probably go into paragraphs worth of detail but at the same exact time i'm sure you'd skim it, disregard all i say, and act like the facts aren't there so i wont bother.

Nilok1 votes

The problem is whenever someone says "assassins", everyone thinks of (or means) Zed. Zed has become the poster child of overpowered assassins due to his mage level poke, LeBlanc level mobility/escape, and Talon level of all in. Simply put, assassins should need to jump in to secure a kill, and if they succeed, are able to escape, while being able to be punished for failing to kill their target or being locked down. When someone always has an escape button whenever they engage, it becomes too easy to harass and easily recover from a mistake.

TheTegeltonju1 votes

Stronger than they already are? dude adc is unplayable right now after the assassin rework

Try to farm, get buttfucked by some fucking gaylord shaco main

Try to be in the backline as in a teamfight - get buttfucked by some virgin zed main

I know that yasuo isnt an assassin, but holy fuck he should be removed 24 second cooldown for a fucking 2 minute ult cooldown fucking really rito? And he deletes people faster than any assassin

Yes - game would be alot better without the assassins, it would make the adc role playable, not as it is right now, it has been unplayable for 2 months now after the assassin rework.

And about the assassin rework - they didn't make more counterplay - why the fuck should I buy a zhonyas on an adc to be able to play against some assassins?

Please riot, atleast buff vayne or something, so assassins can taste their own medicine.

Thank you for you attention!

Lugg2 votes

The assassin class has ALWAYS been the most unbalanced of all the classes. Due to their very nature, they are either too OP or too UP.

BadmoonBC1 votes

I can snowball with an assassin and if I don't win in 15-20 minutes and get them to surrender and they have a bunch of tanks on their team my assassination won't matter at all.

Titanium701 votes

Obviously things would change:

  • Engage patterns gain more strenght.
  • Mages will get their lane back, maybe they'd disapear from supp completely.
  • Disengage would become stronger.
  • Positioning will be super important.
  • Having Frontline-Tanks would become more important, someone has to soak up those ADCs.
  • Overall we'd see more deathball and anti-deathball oriented teams. Sivir, Karth, Rightous Glory, Janna, Ori and more...

I would be sad? Nope, not at all. Diversity would suffer? Yes, although.. I miss those Deathball Teams in SoloQ... ^^

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

-Mages never lost their lane.......

-Disengage would actually become less needed since disengage/peel is mostly for assassins, not really for anyone else unless that bruiser is feeling frisky.

Titanium701 votes

-Disengage would actually become less needed since disengage/peel is mostly for assassins, not really for anyone else unless that bruiser is feeling frisky.

With engage becoming more important, disengage would also rise. Sure right now you throw 50 spells on the one Assassin trying to kill ypur ADC in <1s. And this wont be necessary - but instead you have to peel things like Wukong, Amumu, Leona going ham! Which requires a different style of peel, but still masive amounts!

-Mages never lost their lane.......

within the Top 10 most popular Mid Champions, We have 5 pure Assassins + Yasuo 1 Mage played as Assassin (TF) 1 Mage-Assassin Hybrid (Ahri)

And exactly two real mages Brand and Lux(everyone QQs about).

These guys Syndra Xerath Ziggs Karthus Velkoz Anivia goofing around below 3% pick rate.... yep Mages definatley controll Midlane.. cough ... cough...

Dont get me wrong, some shifts in Meta are nice and seeing diversity is great, but since Pre6 things are really going out of hand... the immobile Mage Update is desperately needed, because at the moment, the midlane is everything but diverse!

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

In competitive play where the assassin role is lacking for picking they don't really see disengage/peel as much but more CC lock-focused since enemies can't jump on your high priority allies as well. So if it were removed as per competitive play shows disengage isn't as important.

Top mid laners Lux, ahri, morg, malz, talon, annie, TF, kayle, Vel, zed in order.

Only 3 of which are assassins, Ahri can burst a target but has heavy AoE damage and utility to aid her team but I'll still give the assassin due to mobility with burst potential on a target. However TF is by no means an assassin no mobility and can harass an entire team hard along with utility tools to fall back on if he can't really damage well, he's a mage.

Mages are better, people just think assassins are more fun to play due to mobility and shock&awe effect. but mages will always>assassins.

Titanium701 votes

In compeditive, Teams prefer pick oriented comps - that why elise was so much of a problem. You pick one target out of the fight and the win because they now exactly how to play a 5v4 even with some abilities down.

In SoloQ pick comps work as well, especially in moderate-high elo. But the most effective thing were just massive teamfighting comps, at least in my favortie League-Time (S5 after the first cinderhulk nerf, when everything was viable and assassins where only used as counterpick from time to time.) And against massive Engage, Disengage or Counterengage are the only things you can do - that's why I wrote this. ^^

And top Mids: Annie???? wat... and Vel? ever played Vel against Zed or Yas.. sorry I hate Whack-A-Mole... I looked for most picked champions in Mid - what you looked for?

TF: He is played as Assassin and nothing else. He is a waveclear-bot in laning waits and waits for his Ult to 100-0 squishys. He gets as much artificial Scalings as possible to do it better.

And yes Mages are the stronger and more usefull class in general. But Mages need time to ramp up and games are just not long enough to do so.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Yea elise is easier to consistently pick due to her play making <3

For top mids, I went by win rate and win rate with experience

I still say TF is mage because of how well he can harass a team down with tosses and use his utility to aid his team even if he's not doing well. However he could just be another hybrid of mage and assassin who knows.

See I wish more people would take note of that, no matter what issues can arise I do like assassins cause of the chance to curve early-mid game vs my mages who can use utility to support a team comp until they reach their carry status.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

Well if you want ADCs to be even more overpowered than they already are then sure go for it

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Youmuu still better then duskblade, Duskblade has a long CD, triggers on any AA(taunts will end it especially), if something even happens to die to it they would have died to 1-2 more AAs anyways which is a good thing for such a long CD, and it's damage can be removed by items While DFG which still did damage which couldn't be removed, and could target whoever you wanted when you wanted and a lower CD not to mention had an additional damage amp. If anything duskblade is a gutted ver. of DFG not horrible but nothing to brag about. It's not an item that needs nerfing/remove-worthy.

Now the reason assassins exist are to curve the early-mid game heavily into their team's favor which mages can't do really well until late game. Assassins can do it better while they fell off late game due to grouping up could hurt an assassin's DPS/burst. Duskblade improved their fall-off point without making them broken.

Why should any assassin be removed? Just because you don't like using/playing versus it doesn't mean it's unhealthy for the game. They are again early-mid game champs who want to take out a squishy to give their team an easier time which is powerful tool to help you win a game without team reliance (Main reason why mage assassins suffer is because they are assassins but still have to rely on their team). Only assassins I personally like playing are talon/shaco 2 of my 29 mains however I love facing zed/akali/lb etc. because they allow me to fight a battle differently than any mage enemy could ever offer since their early game is more impactful thus a refreshing change of pace.

IMHO i think the entire assassin role would be better if it was more AD/ jungle-option focused (Not meaning take out all AP assassins in lane but give them some jungle power/options too),

LB, Kat, Kass are the only 3 champs who would be changed though

Kat- could be given more AD+physica focus which isn't hard or would feel weird since kat already has AD ratios in-kit.

Kass- could be given more damage to monsters OR changed to AD+physical focus (Kass can still get a great amount of mana from AD anyways and he does like to AA between cast)

LB- I have no change suggestion I could make because it would destroy her kit since LB has range, mobility, and heavy CC. something which would be too much on an AD or jungler with the damage output it offers.

However, Assassins are able to curve early-mid games but AD assassins have a bonus of being able to take out objectives hence not needing to rely more on their team. The reason why I feel assassins would be better if more AD focused(in lane) or jungle focused(If AP, however not fully taking lane from them instead want AP assassins to have a jungle option) is since junglers exist to help curve games early-mid(There's other stuff junglers do this is just part of it) the entire assassin role aside from AD who can fall back on split pushing should be able to jungle.

Again the only champions who would get looked into are Kat, Kass, and LB. Kass/Kass who are simple fixes for such a thing but LB......

Fatalitý1 votes

Assassins being removed? Lol you wish keep trying to beg they will never go XD [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070 item 3070

Lost R1 votes

As someone who bashes assassins all the time, no. They're a major and important role in the game. It became a problem (and hence why I bash them relentlessly all the time) when a vast majority of the community started playing assassins EXCLUSIVELY and entire divisions would become disproportionately full of assassin mains. It leads to a stupid arms race mentality where assassins try to out-assassin one another over other tactics like elemental/strategic superiority, which leads to a team that gains an early lead can't be dethroned because of overspecialization. THAT is what ruined the game more than anything else.

Titanium701 votes

Well... why?

Sure Assassins being mandatory is the worst possible META because of all the problems those kits cause for both teams - but as a niche/counter option they're totally fine. It's just important and Assassins-Players have to understand this, strong/META Assassins are toxic. Period.

That's not the fault of the Champions them selfes - just the core fantasy of an Assassin is not heathy to a team-centric game. On the other hand - their should always be more than one playstyle available - that's why we should keep them in this game.

SeaGodUrronuos1 votes

Okay so delete half of the game got it, i cant tell if this is troll or actually a stupid person saying this but whatever im not wasting my breath on it.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by DiamondStef

This game is a plethora of favoritism
Gameplay7 comments
5
votes
To all the Zed "mains" who complain about Lux being overpowered
Gameplay11 comments
5
votes
"She has no mobility" - Excuse after Excuse
Gameplay11 comments
5
votes
Riot should do a chart of what is a bannable offense and what is?
Player Behavior11 comments
5
votes
Ok Riot, Disable and rework Yi or this game is going in the bin.
Gameplay10 comments
2
votes
Why are the most rewarding champs to play, the easiest?
Gameplay4 comments
2
votes