Proposal for changes to Oracle Lens' interaction with Shaco's W, and to the boxes themselves.

NoobLearninGame·3/30/2019, 4:13:47 PM·13 votes·5,222 views

I was watching Pink Ward's stream recently and witnessed once again his frustration at the fact that Oracle Lens is such a strong counter to Shaco's W, essentially rendering the boxes useless (because of an item with a 10 second duration you can get for free at the start of the game as of Patch 8.8, Oracle Lens). I have a proposal that would perhaps be a sufficient compromise to both make red trinket no longer render the boxes useless, but still allow every champion (both melee & ranged) a chance to destroy them without activating them as long as they are revealed, just like with Teemo's R.

So, since Patch 8.8 you can buy this counter at level 1 for free, and between then and Patch 5.22 could get it at level 9+, at which point Shaco's boxes could become nearly irrelevant if the enemies chose Oracle Lens/Alteration and used their trinkets wisely.

[As an unrelated suggestion.. perhaps let Shaco's E have adaptive damage, another AP Shaco buff?]

This is the text included in the image I'm sharing as simple visual aid, representing the proposed changes:

If the red lines represent the minimum distance the boxes can be from each other, and are the distance they activate at when a neutral creature or enemy minion/champion approaches them, both reduce the distance they activate at, so that melee champions can destroy them with auto attacks when revealed by any means, rather than only ranged champions, and allow us to place boxes the same amount closer as their new activation distance. The yellow markers indicate a rough estimate of their new activation distance and how close you could place the boxes together.

In exchange make red trinket only reveal rather than activate the trap, just like Teemo's R.

Instead of red trinket being an overpowered counter to Shaco's W, it will allow you to see and destroy them with your auto attacks and abilities, but won't activate them, wasting their fear and time they could be damaging something. This would be especially helpful to those who play AP Shaco, like Pink Ward, who are crippled by red trinket in Shaco's W's current state. If necessary, perhaps nerf some other aspect of Shaco's W to compensate, if this is a large enough buff to Shaco's W to warrant it.

https://i.imgur.com/f3HFh9m.png

I saved what I and another person said in Pink Ward's stream chat that prompted this post (I'm making some slight additions in square brackets):

[Me] I don't really see why Shaco boxes don't behave like Teemo R when red trinket is used.

[Someone else in chat.] I would assume it is because they are ranged and would guarantee damage vs melee champions but it is probably among the worst ways to fix that issue.

[Me] "So like.. melee doesn't have any good options to destroy the boxes without the red trinket, whereas they can destroy the [Teemo] shrooms. They could shorten the activation range on Shaco's boxes I guess...."

"And in exchange not have red trinket activate the box making the fear useless [and wasting the damage potential]."

"I guess to buff it slightly they could also allow you to put boxes closer together, within the shorter activation range of each other."

2 Comments

F1brizo3/31/2019, 2:26:00 PM4 votes

Honestly i don't really care about lens and control wards interacting with stealth (Q).

But it really should be changed with boxes. It's stupid.

Have an upvote

Tormentula3/30/2019, 6:24:51 PM1 votes

Something to keep in mind is the boxes are also countered by control wards.

However what has also changed is shaco's stealth is no longer countered by control wards, so even if you fix the oracle's problem, players will still just do the same counterplay they did before the assassin update, put down a control ward and use oracles to see where his stealth goes.

Whether it gets fixed or not, its only removing some ease of that counterplay, rather then putting a stop to the counterplay itself. The only way to combat this is removing the interaction with control wards as well, but then you flat out remove counterplay to a kit that already severely lacks it due to the nature of his Q, coinflip ult, and early ignite cheese with a one shot based playstyle.

It'd be different if they reworked his Q to not be a free flash and just be a stealth+kayn E in one instead, and made distinguishing his clone a lot easier.