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Please look at Diana

Nergle··32 votes·14,091 views

I know riot probably won’t pay attention to this because Diana isn’t a popular champ, and quite frankly they don’t seem to care about her, I wanted to make this post anyways because she has everything going against her right now. She has been indirectly nerfed consistently, and can’t compete with any of the new champs.

First of all, scarra and other streamers/pro players have mentioned that Diana’s kit is extremely linear and predictable, already making her very vulnerable and outplayable. Besides that, ap itemization on her has become confusing and difficult as many items tend to favour ranged champions, or aren’t worth building on her. While she can dish out a lot of damage it is very easy to counter with mr, denying her the burst she is known for. Building roa nashors for tank/sustain just isn’t worth it anymore because it takes her to long to reach her power spikes, and by the time she does the game is already over. Arcsecond just released a video on why he has stopped playing Diana which covers this in more detail.

In terms of laning, pretty much any other pick is better. She is ganked easily, she can be countered easily by building mr, and she has no place split pushing because top laners are now often ad bruisers that out-trade and out-push her in side lanes.

To top things off, the only viable summoner spell (teleport) just got nerfed to the ground. I mean you can take ignite but it doesn’t offer nearly as much as teleport did, plus Diana’s kill potentional (for reasons mentioned earlier) is slim, so ignite is pretty useless. Oh, and her q&e have been bugged for 2 months now.

I love Diana, by far my favourite champ to play and when played right she can be very good in this meta, but even if you play the game perfectly it doesn’t guarantee you’ll win. It is hard to see such a great champion waste away.

I’m praying that she will receive some quality of life buffs to her kit. I don’t care if they buff her damage, I would rather see fundamental changes to her kit that make it so she has a reason to be picked. Such a great champ with an abundance of potentional. There are tons of suggestions out there from Diana mains!!!

Please riot, help an aspect of the moon out!!! Give this girl a break!

51 Comments

Frosted Tips9 votes

I personally think they need to do a class update. The diver class. Diana would be apart of it and mostly Physical damage champions besides her like Wukong and such. Plus new items for AP fighters and AD fighters. Diana would get small ability changes to her W and E imo.

Nergle11 votes

Class update would be nice but they said they don’t want to do anymore :( after the Assassin update I don’t know if I’d trust them to do another! Although It would be nice to see some ap bruiser items tbh (tho they’d probably be abused by mages)

Frosted Tips2 votes

Yeah I know they said they would not do anymore, but I really believe they should rethink it for one more the Diver Update which would include Diana, Wukong, Nocturne, Pantheon, and Hecarim. Possibly more.

Nergle2 votes

This is true, tbh all the champs you listed could use some quality of life tweaks. I feel like all divers are stuck between two or more classes (ex. Diana is stuck between an ap bruiser & Assassin) and it would be nice for them to have a true identity!

T Captain T2 votes

Ahhh I strongly disagree. I believe that’s how they ruined league by making champs focused on building certain items. It’s also how they ruined creativity with the new runes, items and reworks. Just look at Evelynn for example. She used to be either a full AP assassin or a hybrid fighter and both were fun to play and strong depending on the situation. I feel Diana needs an updated kit but nothing too severe that’ll change her identity. Some great examples of reworks that I liked personally were Warwick, Katarina, Heim, Zac And Vlad. They got reworks that were needed not just for viability, but to have some more depth to them but keeping them extremely similar. Katarina has dagger placements, Heim got better upgrades to his skills from his ult, Warwick has good crowd control from his fear and better chase potential but his ult is a skill shot, Zac instead of bouncing around 3 times from his ult and punching someone once with his Q, can now collide two units together and carry the whole enemy team to a targeted area. Vlad, although still extremely strong has a delay in his E and has to build up his meter for his Q to dish out good dmg and heal for sustain. I just don’t think there should be a certain build path for a champion but instead tweaks to their kits. (Sorry if this post was too long.)

EDIT: I realized I read the post wrong so my apologies. I do agree with the class update idea. Diana could’ve really used it.

Nergle2 votes

I agree with what you are saying, champs should not be made to be focused around items!! However, it would be nice to see some items oriented around ap melee champs like morde, Diana, rumble, fizz, kat etc. No items that are dedicated to them and quite often the ap items are better utilized on ranged champs.

It would be amazing to see a mini rework for Diana to clean up her kit a bit, but nothing drastic! I would like to see riot fix her to be either an assassin or an ap bruiser/diver, currently she’s stuck between both (more of an Assassin in this meta) and i think that’s a big problem for her because she cannot fulfill either role properly. She lacks the escape of an assassin and she lacks the strong engage and survivability of a diver.

woodvsmurph3 votes

Add some melee only restrictions... like ravenous/titanic hydra and sterak's for ad champs. They can do this with ap too. Help out morde and diana to have some valid options w/o needing team comps designed to enable them. I think perhaps some resistance+ap items other than witt's end or zhonya would be nice to combo with something like a roa and perhaps a gunblade. Diana could play out more like a master yi then... using her dps from her passive to drain tank people. But like you say - item timings need to be looked at, because it takes so long for ap champs like her to get to her items. And maybe change the passive on her e to temporarily shred a % of opponents' mr who are pulled in by it. This would give her some mini-burst.

Items: item 3027 item 3115 item 3146 X, Y (x, y are yet to be created melee specific ap items... probably containing ap plus resistance stats and maybe some cdr too). That's kind of a build I'd envision for her. Giving her dps, sustain, and some burst too. Obviously it wouldn't be her only option, but if item timings could be worked out properly, she'd be a nice ap sustain bruiser with some mini-burst kind of like a jax with triforce, bork, and bruiser/tank items would feel.

Nergle1 votes

I’ve been dreaming of melee only ap items for so long. Many ap melee champs don’t benefit as much from so many of the ap items. I would love to see Diana as an ap bruiser champ, she has the kit for it, it just needs some cleaning up and tweaking. I loved building roa nashors on her and split pushing, unfortunately that’s not viable anymore :/ I feel like her and Morde are in the same sort of position where they have the potential to be something great if given then attention they needed. They’re both stuck in this really awkward spot that could so easily be fixed.

woodvsmurph1 votes

I used to go revolver into thornmail vs ad toplaners. I could 1v2 most of them and their jg by the time they ganked by me lvl 6 with 2nd set of double buffs. Wota, thornmail, visage, liandri's, and final item would vary depending on opponents. It was epic... but sadly cannot be done now due to rework and loss of wota. Sure you can attempt a similar thing with gunblade, but you don't have the early cdr that wota gave, so it's not as good of a build to begin with and takes longer to get the effects that made the build so good too.

I guess our job is to come up with some reasonable (not broken op or crazy hard to design) items for ap bruisers, collect them on a thread and make it an open letter/suggestion to Riot. Give them enough ideas, get enough upvotes and positive feedback from players and maybe they start trying to implement some of them on pbe to test if it is a viable solution. And then some of them eventually make it to live. If nothing else, give some feedback on what stats you'd be looking for in those theoretical items yet to be created.

Such as 60-80ap, 10%cdr, mr.

Orøchi2 votes

I'll be honest i didnt think i'd be seeing these comments outside of morde/rumble mains (although i did see you mentioned morde thank you bb.)

woodvsmurph1 votes

Well I used to play a fair bit of morde before rework, but he's just not viable toplane right now in most games. Too easily punished for pushing w/o any escapes, no spell vamp aside from full gunblade which you can't afford by level 6, etc. He's just too exploitable right now with all the mobility and cc of champs in the game and how low mobility he has. Adc's are ok with such base movespeed because they can easily get more with their zeal items AND because they have range. Morde has none of that... so it's absurd to give him such low movespeed.

I can appreciate the difficulty/problems of other classes even if I don't currently play much of them. No point having any kind of debate if you aren't willing to have an open mind and consider where all sides are coming from and appreciate their reasoning... even if you ultimately disagree with them - not that I disagree with needing some melee specific ap items and stuff. That is much needed. Anyways, thanks.

Vargrjalmer1 votes

honestly morde is in a good spot when his bugs dont fuck you over, his ad scales into magic damage, so you can build things like steraks and black cleaver on him and get tons of magic damage with transcendence in the mix, thats why i play akali ad xD

KoKoboto7 votes

Diana definitely needs a bit of a rework. When she's ahead she's as cancerous as Akali with a point click combo. She doesn't NEED to land Q first to one shot with a double R. She can just R->W->Q and that'll get the job done.

She by no means needs buffs. What she does need is a small rework.

CppL4 votes

They need to fix her Q and W bugs.Thats shit is fucking annoying...And yea she could use some buffs but not dmg ,her burst is already stupid.

Daddy Ants4 votes

She needs a rework.

DO NOT LET CERTAINLYT TOUCH HER PLEASE.

Dracocrash3 votes

anyone except certainlyT PLEASE.

Targon3 votes

Diana used to have a very good niche. She was kind of like an anti-assassin, and was able to keep champions like Akali Katarina Zed Fizz Leblanc in line. Now that we're in an assassin meta, you'd think she'd shine, but that's not the case. She has lost her niche. Damage is so high that setting assassins behind doesn't matter as much anymore. Diana has lost that reliability in some respect. Why pick Diana when her early game is weak; she has no escape; and her durability means barely anything? The only thing Diana has going for her is she can reliable make a 5v5 a 4v4. Riot should really look into things they can change with her kit.

Nergle1 votes

I completely agree with you, that’s why I originally picked her up because she played so well into all those champs. Any other assassin is a better pick than her in this meta. Even before, when roa nashors was a good build path you could fall back on split pushing if assassinating was difficult - she can’t even do that anymore :/ all of her strengths have become mediocre at best and there is always a better pick than her.

Lord Malpercio2 votes

You don't want Riot to look at Diana. They will completely nerf her, as they have stated her design was a mistake. Shhh. Don't bring attention to her, or you'll wind up like Ivern

Asobi Spirit2 votes

But isn't linear and predictable what makes her strong? You dont need to knowul multiple engage patterns when all you need is to Hit Q and then R. If your damage is high, the enemy will die.

Nergle3 votes

It’s a weakness because Diana only has a few options when approaching any situation. This makes it easier for the enemy to predict and counter her engages. She has very high reliance on her q, so if her q is side stepped she essentially becomes a sitting duck unless you have the dmg to get a kill with an r engage. Even then, you sacrifice all your mobility/escape/further kill potential as your r is now on cooldown. The simplicity of her kit makes her have very limited outcomes and options.

Nergle2 votes

Not to say that simple champs are bad! I think they are very healthy and balanced for the game. I’m just saying that Diana’s kit is outdated for the meta and could use some love. For example, I would love for them to add more interaction with her moonlight! She has a lot of potential to be tapped into, it doesn’t have to be anything groundbreaking!

Diana hole2 votes

She doesn't really need any buffs. Diana is playable in almost any tiers, you just need to put more effort into making her work. Keep playing diana if you enjoy playing her, but if ur playing her for strengths, then pick a different champ

Nøctμrne2 votes

Diana needs a nerf imo. I have played too many games where a Diana I forced into practically feeding scores starts to one shot my teamates.

The volatility of her kit is insane, she can one shot you so quickly that you have 0 counterplay.

The only reason she's become predictable is because she's been around long enough to where people have figured out everything she does. Diana is also an AP assassin and with her kit she should definitely be gankeable early game.

Also I am frustrated about this, but in the end, you playing perfectly should never guarantee a win. There are 9 other players there that can influence a game, and you being able to control it alone should not be an aspect of the game (despite me wanting it as well) as it can allow players who shouldn't necessarily be climbing to get wins.

Nergle2 votes

Playing against a Diana is frustrating because of the crazy damage she dishes out, but that’s her only strength right now. Her split push potential got destroyed as soon as nashors roa became unviable. She really doesn’t offer any other benefits to a team comp. Even then, assassins like talon, zed, Leblanc, kat etc can secure kills easier and more reliably, so picking Diana over any of these champs is pointless (unless you genuinely enjoy playing her). I’ve been playing Diana for a few years and she has never felt worse to me. Tbh it seems like every other champ can do my job better, and bursting has been a lot harder with mr items and the resolve tree. I personally dislike the amount of damage she does, id rather see her play as an ap bruiser and do sustained damage, and I think it would be more suitable for her kit. I don’t think Diana should have her damage buffed (if anything it should be nerfed), i think they should adjust or add strengths to her kit to acheive the bruiser/diver class she was intended for. Not only would this (hopefully) solve the damage problem but I think it would add something new to the game and make her a more viable pick. :)

Crescent Dusk2 votes

{quoted}

Diana needs a nerf imo. I have played too many games where a Diana I forced into practically feeding scores starts to one shot my teamates.

The volatility of her kit is insane, she can one shot you so quickly that you have 0 counterplay.

The only reason she's become predictable is because she's been around long enough to where people have figured out everything she does. Diana is also an AP assassin and with her kit she should definitely be gankeable early game.

Also I am frustrated about this, but in the end, you playing perfectly should never guarantee a win. There are 9 other players there that can influence a game, and you being able to control it alone should not be an aspect of the game (despite me wanting it as well) as it can allow players who shouldn't necessarily be climbing to get wins.

Play Yasuo. Proceed to shit on her in lane. Your Windwall straight up counters her Q engage as does your passive shield, your E allows you easy dodging of Q's or her E pull on top, and you have way more sustained damage than her.

0 Hogapu2 votes

Arcsecond's point of view on the topic : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlVnh6K08b0&t=5s

Maiocco2 votes

{quoted}

Arcsecond's point of view on the topic : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlVnh6K08b0&t=5s

If you listen carefully, he basically explains the biggests failures ( without saying it ) to date, @Ghostcrawler and the team behind him have done. Namely, the biggest issue, runes reforged. A rushed out project, unfinished, that messed with the existing balance of the game. Just listen carefully to the parts. He explains it very well. And it applies to any champ. This is what these changes called „runes reforged“ have created. Beyond repair. Only fixable with a hard reset pre RR. Matchups no longer are matchups. First punch wins. Meta beats non-meta/niche... and hard.

0 Hogapu1 votes

Yeah ... what if there were no runes at all, only items that you can build ? That would be much better imho.

Nergle1 votes

Or at least old runes (just make them free and changeable in champ select lmao)

Alice Quinn2 votes

Not to mention her bugged Q for over 3 months and E for half a year. They don't care about her.

FlashnFuse2 votes

+1 for the Diana love. I've always tried to get our lunar girl some attention, I hope you succeed.

Nergle1 votes

Thanks luv ❤️

hhaavviikk2 votes

diana needs to be reworked not buffed her W > Q > R one shot playstyle is obnoxious to face

GodlyBane2 votes

i looked, shes pretty hot tbh

Jack Garrus2 votes

I like her lore and design but I find her really boring to play. I think she needs a rework

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

I feel like she is a good candidate after karma.

Diana like Karma is mostly 90% okay Art-wise.

But their kit needs modernizing.

Q + R + R just doesn't cut it nowaday.

Nergle1 votes

Totally agree, both of them need some lovin!! Art wise they are both beautiful, but their kits definitely could use some updating!

Is karma getting a rework? I thought I heard something about it, but not positive!

Shatter the Sun2 votes

I think they should keep her gameplay linear. Some simplicity is good for the game. They should add some more effects to her abilities and change around the numbers to give her kind of a fresh coat of paint since most know how to deal with her. More ways for her abilities to interact with moonlight.

AyoLiko4201 votes

Same for ekko it's kinda sad now really

HaIlMonitor1 votes

I have always felt she was pushed out of the game when Ekko Came out. His kit is just simply better in most situations except damage, which trading some damage for lots of utility is usually better. She could use some updating though for sure.

Crescent Dusk2 votes

At this point damage isn't even something you can say Ekko lacks. One E+Q+electrocute still blows up most ADC's and Ekko can get out with ult or have W to gain a retreating shield or stun multiple opponents. Ekko also gets a ranged snare via Q and his E is really damn useful for dodging skillshots before engaging.

The only assassin I hate fighting as Ekko is a good Fizz.

HaIlMonitor1 votes

That further shows my point lol.

Beacon Academy1 votes

Malzahar Diana should get reworked by the great repertoir /s

Ashenvall1 votes

Diana "fighter" yerk....

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Diana have to be an AP assassin. AP fighter are not viable anyway.... Except maybe on-hit ADC

FridgesArePpl21 votes

The jungle changes killed her playability in the jungle (not that she was great before).

BobaFlautist1 votes

They should really balance her around her passive. Allow you to stack it up two times (like Riven's) so you can q-ult for the reset without wasting stacks, give her a slow on w or something so she can stick longer, reduce her Q and W base damages and Mana costs but give them like a bonus hp or total ad ratio, and lastly, and most importantly, take away her bonus attackspeed on passive and give her a decent base attack speed.

Basically, make her more like irelia.

Hyquiem1 votes

Ap hypercarries should be a class now.

Kurt Hyzan1 votes

Azir Brand Cassiopeia Katarina are, MR is just too strong

9051 votes

I couldn't agree more and I've noticed as well what we all Diana mains know - the need for changes. I have even made a post about it, with my own thoughts about the current state of Diana.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/Efkr796j-a-comment-idea-towards-upcoming-diver-update

Her kit lacks many valuable keypoints, which nowdays are essential in nearly every champion design. She has no escape, her ms is quite low compare to current standard, Nashors is tbh only good item for melee ap champion. Wit's end is just old and fixed amount of bonus dmg every basic is not in todays standard favor. On the other hand we have multiple well working items for ad melee champions. Overall items for ad champions are much better and offer much more. Her game play is linear and pretty much "famine or feast". They classify her as a diver, but she cannot sustain in the fight long enough and that's because her W is not enough and there aren't really any good tanky items on her that would work. And what's most important for me, her E sucks a lot. I mean it, this skill mana cost is huuuge, it provides nearly nothing and it's animation + channel time is so long that everyone 90% times manage to escape it with their dash.

In short words -> Diana's kit is just old and it needs adjustments/changes.

I would see her as 50% focus on aa and 50% focus on abilities type of champion.

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