Skill is not a known variable with zero data.
You can not run a skill ladder or a skill MM system with 0 information on some ones skill. So MMR MM is not just "skill biased matchmaking" its also the system that has to measure out skill.
There would be no need to Rate players if we could instantly know how good they are. Skill is not a constant, its changes, people can improve or get worse. MMR ratings represent a mean performance average.
If you don't want to see "newbies" in your games you only need the ability to climb above the MMR they exist in. If you cant do that despite the fact the player your complaining about will with LLN provide more wins then losses, you lack the ability to play at that level.
The thing is that it shouldn't happen. It just ruins games. No matter what you say to justify it, it's just fucking over actual silver/gold players.
The populations skill curve of Rating wont change. Swaping the titles wont fix it. Its going to be a system built around averages. So, change the starting value, ladder will distribute to match that change. This fucks over ALL players. Those silver/Gold folks are now sinking slowly into the new starting MMR, and now not only do they still get the games your calling unacceptable their rank is also dropped to what ever you set as "starting" Raiting. Iron, bronze. Where ever you put it, that's where a majority of the player base will be playing.
In oder for game to be competitve you need a competition on both sides. How is playing against a literal newbie and sweeping the floor with him a competition? Spoiler alert, it's not.
The have some time to learn the game prior to queing for ranked. If some one thinks they have the ability and goes into ranked lacking that ability? bo hoo. That's on them. You compeate with out the ability to back it up then you pay the price. That's life. No devs are obligated to hold some ones hand and spoon feed them skill.
Again, that's only gonna happen in a fraction of a players games. Better MM lowers the Frequency. I wont make any claims for riots system apart from I do believe there is room for them to improve their MM.
If you do something stupid, run a secondary skill curve, the exact same issue happens.
Its already something you can observe.
Normal are an independent curve. If you don't have the "skill" from normal going into ranked you get demolished.
Same issue, If you make a secondary curve for high uncertainty players for ranked, then when they start to blend into the curve, if they cant cut it, they get demolished. The main difference is that because they spend time in a separate que that gives them inaccurate raitings, when they blend they do so at a wider range of the ladder. Impacting more games, and because you only blend when uncertainty would be lower? they spend more time IN the main population curve fucking up more games.
Its better to run a high K, dead weight will sink from that. People who can stomp will climb.
No attempts to match skill are not competitive. MMR is the best option. It has its flaws, but its proven to work. Just needs the data, and it will have mismatched games from high uncertainty.
Yea, if people actually manage to escape from an MMR of a newbie. But thats kinda hard for some of us, since it wont stop until mid/high gold. So losing a game because we were unlucky enough to get a newbie whos barely able to move, let alone play properly, on top of other bs, while having 0 control over it, is not fair.
If you think it's fair then it's the same as thinking having a troll in your team is fair aswell. But at that point you would lose all credibility.
The point is that, if I go in ranked and I'm silver 2, I want to play with actual silvers. I dont want to play with a fresh lvl 30 who got his silver MMR by default. I want players of my skill level which should increase as my elo increases.
I agree, A majority of games with a good MM should be exactly what you want. Your an established silver 2 player? Majority of what you play should be with established players and mismatches from uncertainty are not a majority.
I can only relay information as it stands. The curve will adjust to a change of starting MMR value to make that become the majority range. This is how its designed and how it measures player skill. The way the math functions for averages and probability is going to create the same end results with LLN. Same way
Because Its multiple games, not single ones. I do consider having a troll on my team "fair." I think it makes the match complete shit and not fun. I am not an idiot whos going to claim it makes "fair gameplay" But I will have more wins then lose because of trolls.
If the enemy team had the ability to get that troll or what BS toxic behavior some one chose to do. That's fair. Randomness is fair in how it treats people. Acting like things that only impact my team are the only things that matter is unfair.
Gameplay is completely irrelevant to Elo systems. 1 or 0. win or loss. Quality or concern for how much fun it was are not tracked or considered variables.
That's why I direct people to get annoyed at Riots behavior systems. To request improvements to ban and remove trolls and toxic accounts ASAP. they suck all the fun out of a game. I don't enjoy losing because of egos. I don't find winning because some one is running it down mid to be fun. This is not something MM will care about.
I know that sounds weird, so please don't blindly trust me or disbelieve me. Go and look it up. Its well documented.
Think for a second why can Elo be used for so many different sports and games and even abstractions like a MM algorithms for literally Matchmaking dating sites like Tinder?
What I am trying to explain, its probability systems not game design. Look into it, you should be able to see if this is the truth behind the reason it can be used to make ratings for songs on sites like pandora, popularity on Facebook, chess, scrabble, football, or curling. Its breakdown of possible outcomes into likely hood of those outcomes then comparison to see if there's a gap between expectations vs reality.
If skill could be accurately judge with out data? that would be nice.
The treatment of all players is equal, the behavior of the system is always the same. That's about all the "Fairness" you will get and should expect.
You want to see Truly competitive? Its not gonna be a RNG que in a team game. Its gonna be premade 5 man teams. Proplay is a pro team for that reason.
You want to play a majority of your games vs your peers? Elo and MMR systems do that but are not at all perfect and cant accurate rate people with low data. LLN needs time to shine.
