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@Riot Don't make changes for the sake of making changes. (Talking about Viktor's changes.)

Maniacal Doom·4/21/2016, 3:03:54 PM·46 votes·1,626 views

"Change is good" -Kha Zix Well, mofo, "Too much unnecesary change sucks" -Me

I am generally content with the mage update. Changing champions that needed changes because their kits were kinda toxic/problematic and lacked identity is nice.

The elemental dragon change, even though risky thanks to the RNG, can also be good for the health of the game. (Making dragon more meaningful than top lane turret.)

Change to QSS is also really risky, and can break some champions ahemZed*ahem...but this change is good for the long term health of the game.

But...BUT......

There are just some mages (especially in the small-rework changes.) That didn't need changes at all.

Fiddlesticks and even Swain can benefit from the changes, but champions like Viktor (Yes, I'm a Viktor main and I'm upset by the direction of the change.) Syndra and even Anivia didn't need these changes at all.

I'm mainly going to talk about Viktor in this post cause he is my main. You can add your own discussion about your own champion/main if you want to.

Viktor is a cool guy, y'know? I've been maining him since June of 2013, and I've loved every single thing about him, from the cheesy top-lane Viktor build with the yellow augment and furor boots pre-rework to my pentakill(s) from his great teamfight potential. I reached from Bronze to Plat in mid year S4 playing exclusively Viktor, so I guess I know my stuff about him. In the current state of the game, I find Viktor to be an unique mage thanks to his awesome passive, his Lazor and his kill potential (Even though he is a tad UP atm). I think he has a fairly healthy kit with his own identity as (In riot's own classes) a burst mage/disruptor with a little bit of battle mage sprinkled into him (The closer you get to a Viktor, the more dangerous it is, cause of the instant cast of his laser and gravity field, but he is too frail and immobile to be considered as one.) He has plenty of chance to get outplayed if you dodge his laser/gravity field, but can also butt-f**k you if you're careless. You can choose so many build paths with him (even though you only get 4, excluding boots.) As his only core item with him right now (Apart from the augment) is Rabadons (Arguably). Go Lich Bane to increase his Q effectiveness, with void staff for the MPen and Zhonyas for the survivavility. Wanna spam the lazor more? Change an item for Morello's. Want your lazor to be more effective? Grab a Luden's Echo...oh want to slow your opponents with your ult and with lazor? Rylais is perfect for you...wanna go fancy? Grab a void staff with Rylais and Lyandris and watch your ult shred tanks. What I am getting here is that this guy is a fun-to-play champion with a fairly healthy kit and solid identity...

Then, WHY are you changing him like that? The changes on the PBE have dissapointed me. I've tried him a couple of times in the PBE and he feels so.... different (and extremely cluncky). It's weird, because some of the new mages actually feel similar to their "old" counterparts, like Brand. You're changing Viktors playstyle entirely... He is more clunky, his damage early/mid game is now underwelming, his burst is almost gone...and his kit is IMO a little bit more toxic. He is more bipolar now. He gets ABSOLUTELY rekt by mobility...but have someone with low mobiliy or stunned and they have almost zero counterplay thanks to his buffed Q and Ultimate. His E does not feel relevant apart from being a farming tool, and his W...is the same, so.... yeah. I'm not here to try and trash-talk riot into oblivion...I'm giving my opinion about the Viktor changes...and I'm sure other Viktor mains may feel the same way. Viktor has always been a burst mage...(Even before the rework, he was meant to be a "choose your own path" kind of mage... although than kinda failed, didn't it?) Then, why, out of nowhere, you are trying to enforce the battle mage playstyle on him? Honestly, it doesn't make sense to me.

So, yeah. I hope riot does not go through this update without atleast some drastic changes to his reworked plans or just...cancel it out completely...(would be cool.)

So TL'DR. I'm not against change, just against changing for the sake of change...and I think Viktors rework is unnecesary and his new changes will make him more clunky and problematic.

14 Comments

Malicious Metal4/21/2016, 4:12:51 PM14 votes

No change should make a champion less satisfying to play and make a once smooth champion clunky. That should simply NOT happen...

GhastlyGhoulMan4/21/2016, 7:24:16 PM8 votes

I don't like fighting against a good Viktor, but at least I know it's a fair fight and there's something I could've done to win it. Now I KNOW I'll win it, because Viktor is getting dumped on.

GG Rito.

Sahn Uzal4/21/2016, 3:36:40 PM7 votes

I'm not a Viktor main, but I absolutely LOVE the guy. IMO Viktors Death Ray is a large part of Viktors Identity, it's unique to him and feels really satisfying to use. IMO, it should be a large part of his power budget. As far as his ultimate goes, I'm okay with reducing the instant burst for more sustain damage. Just using it for the initial burst and just letting it stand there is not too punishing right now, if they put more power into the sustained damage you'll have to pay more attention to it. Making Viktor a harder champion in the progress, which is cool. Note though, Missing Chaos storms initial cast won't be as punshing because less damage will be lost, so in that sense he's a little easier.

So Tl;DR, E should hold a lot of his power, don't nerf it. I'm fine with changing R to be more over time damage less burst. summoner 31

Meserion4/21/2016, 3:19:42 PM5 votes

He feels like hes getting the old Soraka treatment: community hate = "reworked" to being a gimped and clunky champion. Hes always been fine, but because the pros have realized he is a good choice for zone control, all the meta-sheep play him, and ppl rage at getting zoned. Because being unable to move for 3+ seconds cough Thresh cough is op and must be stopped.

These changes are uncalled for, he is perfect the way he is.

Scoroct4/21/2016, 11:09:59 PM2 votes

Personally, I like the idea of his ult being dps, but unlike say anivia or rumble or fiddlesticks its not just simple dps, but occasional bursts of massive dmg which is kinda unique. However I would tone down to maybe 1.5sec ticks instead of 2 and adjust so the total dmg is the same.

The lazor change I understand their reasoning. They want viktor to be a disruptor ala anivia or orianna or zyra, however it just feels too damn clunky. if the delay was a bit shorter but longer than current and the dmg was adjusted it would probably be ok, but as is Rylais doesnt even make it reliable to hit anything.

Another thing I want to point out is every other mage besides those with extreme "defensive" tools such as karthus or vlad (rumble lacks one but has insane close range dps) has a hard cc that is somewhat quick to apply. Anivia has one, velkoz, lux, brand has his W/Q combo, orianna, xerath, zyra etc, but viktor lacks one and has no way to set up his own dps zones reliably, and that feels really bad. If his W grounded maybe or something then it would be better, but as is, viktors ult and lazor feel bad cause the delays are simply too long and he cant make them work himself. Anytime a champ has issues making their own kit work feels frustrating to play as. This is actually a similar issue illaoi faces but thats another story. This lack of cc used to be ok because vik sorta traded this for being the premier aoe burst mage where other burst mages were more single target, and other aoe mages had less burst. Now however he is a disruptor which isnt bad necessarily, but is a massive change in playstyle, and his E particularly feels super clunky.

I think if the delays were lowered and the lazor felt more like it used to, but the ult was changed more to dps with adjusted delays many would be fairly happy with his changes (honestly near instantaneous burst without a set up spell is unfun to play against, and what viks E and R sorta let him do beforehand)

OhWanderer4/22/2016, 1:43:35 AM1 votes

ya syndra and anivia were still viable and matched their lore relatively well actually. There are others however that were guinea pigs and are disjointed

Ahri Ahri Ahri Ahri Ahri

I am going to say that she is the worst off out of any mage and to prove it ... I cant tell you the last time i remember seeing an ahri in a game. I enjoyed spell vamp ahri and mained her mid way through last season until ludens came out. (excluding galio or yorik)

Jungle Lux God4/22/2016, 3:58:31 AM1 votes

Viktor used to be my main mid laner before I started focusing more on jungle. He also was one of my favorite top laners, and I had a blast when I took him into the jungle. Throughout my time in the game, he's always been my favorite mage, and one of my favorite champions in general.

The laser changes would be a nice change if they didn't gut the augment's delay. The damage is increased if you hit twice, but the delay is so long that you probably won't hit twice and it got nerfed hard if you don't hit it twice with the ratio reduction and base damage reduction on the second hit. The laser delay makes it obnoxiously clunky to the point where it (probably, don't have access to PBE) is not even satisfying to use. Just looking at videos of the PBE it doesn't even look good.

That said I don't think everything is bad. I have reason to be excited for the Q change because it makes the shield so much more impactful later on in the game, and lets you actually play a battle mage style, and also gives the first buffs he's ever gotten for the jungle (which as a jungle main who likes these kinds of kooky jungle picks and as someone who loves Viktor I have to be excited about).

The ultimate, on the other hand, seems like it might feel clunky, but might feel more satisfying. Rank 1 damage on a full ulti on live breaks even with the new ulti on 1 tick of damage of the delayed portion of the ultimate, and breaks even with a Rank 3 full ulti on live at 2 ticks with some AP (which Viktor will have at that point), so it's technically a buff, and it probably would be satisfying to melt a champions health bar harder with fewer bursts than a longer DoT, especially when the bursts out damage the DoT after hitting 1-2 times, although it definitely would feel clunkier to hit less often with the ultimate.

TheTrueQuarian4/22/2016, 12:56:26 PM1 votes

The guy who came up with the "rework" is prob a salty Jayce main who knows their champ is trash and Viktor is better. item 3070 item 3070 item 3070

Randomonium4/22/2016, 12:59:35 PM1 votes

This is not a glorious evolution.