Youmuu's is still far too efficient for a 3200 item.

Busty Demoness··10 votes·948 views

And it's 100% due to the active.

Let's evaluate.

Youmuu's recipe is the following items:

Caulfields Warhammer + Serrated Dirk

Both are relatively efficient on their own. Serrated Dirk is easily more efficient, but not overly so due to the situational passive.

Combine them for 1000, and you get additional passive effects about equal to the 1000 cost, +15 damage and +10 armor penetration. This cuts back on the original over-efficiency of the armor penetration from Serrated Dirk, creating a break even point.

So why does it include an active worth well over 2000 gold?

40% attack speed is already 1000 (based on Recurve Bow). 20% move speed is at least another 1500 (based on the Zeal items).

Yeah, it's limited to 6 seconds. It's also on a measly 45 second cooldown. No other directly powerful active has a cooldown that short.

Zhonya's? 120 seconds. Blade of the Ruined King? 90 seconds. Mercurial Scimitar? 90 seconds.

These are all COMPARABLE actives. But for some reason, Youmuu's gets the cooldown only half as long as the rest of them?

Even Frost Queen's Claim, a support item with less power in its active than Youmuu's, has a 90 second cooldown. Not even Talisman of Ascension, a 3 second 40% move speed boost to your team, is that efficient with a 60 second cooldown.

The active/price needs gutted, hard. They can't cut the stats any more without creating a loss of stats upon upgrading.

So, I propose the following nerfs:

Combine cost increased to 1600 (3800 total price) Active effect numbers changed as follows: Attack Speed: 40% to 30% Move Speed: 20% to 10% Effect duration: 6 seconds to 4 seconds. Cooldown: 45 seconds to 90 seconds

In the end, this still doesn't properly gut Youmuu's for its price range, but it still brings it back in line with the other items.

18 Comments

Void Nargacuga5 votes

From the LoL wiki: Youmuu's Ghostblade is 98.96% gold efficient without its active and 154.9% while the active is up.

Busty Demoness2 votes

Proving my point here, even if my explanation was off.

I said it was entirely due to the active.

You're proving that it's due to the active.

I'm still getting down voted when the active is also better compared to similarly powerful actives.

Void Nargacuga1 votes

The active only lasts: 6 seconds. And the active has a downtime of: 45 seconds.

Whenever you aren't using the the active you have a item with only 98.96% gold efficiency. And your probably not gonna use the active EVERY time it's up (what I mean is your not gonna use it to help you farm some creeps) or you may enter a team fight without the active putting you at a distinct disadvantage.

Busty Demoness1 votes

Then let me finish explaining what you started.

Youmuu's has an active worth about 1600 (according to the wiki).

However, the cost analysis doesn't go into the actives because they're more than raw stats. So you have to ask yourself, are the following actives worth at least 1600 gold every time they are used?

  • Zhonya's? Maybe if it was on a 90 second cooldown.
  • Blade of the Ruined King? A small heal with less movement effects than Youmuu's on a 90 second cooldown isn't going to be much better than 1600 gold value.
  • Mercurial Scimitar? Before it was nerfed to only remove CC effects, it would have easily been about the same on a 90 second cooldown.

None of these actives are anywhere near as cost efficient simply due to the cool downs.

Let me also add that most of them are similarly cost efficient in raw stats. Why should Youmuu's active be flat out better while also being up more often?

Zero Skill Tank2 votes

This is only so because armor penetration is ridiculously underpriced. Dirk, which base cost of armor penetration is calculated, is absurdly cheap for boost it gives it's user.

Void Nargacuga1 votes

After checking Serrated Dirk's wiki page I can agree with you on how efficient flat armor pen is.

It's hard doing this in my phone. =/

Very Hard Engage1 votes

just compare it to magic pen boots =/ just remove the AD from dirk and make item 3142 it a 3 way build a pickaxe. or some longsword combination.

Void Nargacuga3 votes

Your trying to compare it's active to, of all things, Zhonya's which when you activate causes you to become invulnerable but if used wrong you become a sitting duck surrounded by the enemy team.

Next time try to compare it to VERY similar actives. Not some randomly chosen strong actives.

Busty Demoness1 votes

Very similar actives you say?

That's like telling me I can't compare Spellblade (from Sheen, Lichbane and Trinity Force) to the active from Cutlass/Gunblade/BORK and that I can only compare them within the same tree.

How about ease of use, then?

Zhonya's has huge windows of error. BORK has timing windows and situational nature. Mercurial Scimitar has lost even its niche use as a result of the nerfs.

Youmuu's has almost no window for being misused and has minimal drawbacks to the active.

Tell me exactly why you think I am in the wrong for comparing it to different item actives when it doesn't have another item's similar active to be compared to.

Void Nargacuga3 votes

Are you going to use the active of Ghostblade to farm minions? Probably not and if you do you now have a downtime to consider if your team goes for an objective like Baron/Dragon/Tower.

For Zhonya's: Yes you have to be careful when and where you use it, but if used wisely you can stop your own deaths and get ahead while your opponent gets set back due to a possible death or waste of resources.

BORK: It's passive & active efficiency scales with your targets current and maximum health respectively.

Mercurial Scimitar: It's active is another one that is extremely tricky to calculate due to how it works. Did the enemy just blow all their CC on you and it won't be up soon enough to stop you from escaping or killing a high priority target? Then the active could have a phenomenally high gold value. If you use it on some soft CC it would probably have very low gold value. Thus heavily affecting it's overall gold efficiency.

Busty Demoness1 votes

First paragraph? Moot point. You're not using any of the other actives either.

The rest? You're only further reinforcing my point. Free stats for 6 seconds is far too easy to calculate and use compared to active effects that require much more thoughtful decision making, particularly due to their much shorter duration.

But hey, free stats is obviously an effect that's always worse than effects that change based on your target, right?

Chibi Templar2 votes

Youre trying to reason with gameplay.

That doesn't work. You have speak in memes and TYPE IN ALL CAPS AND BE LITERALLY SCREAMING about stupid shit. You also need to bitch severely about how this item effect negatively impacts Sona or makes Zed and Yasuo even more busted... or something.

Busty Demoness3 votes

Yet, someone helps make my point and gets up voted for it.

Blatant hypocrites.

Linna Excel1 votes

Eh, just delete the active and rebalance from there.

Busty Demoness4 votes

The influx of down votes suggest that bronze players want to keep their item with 5500 gold in stats/effects at its 3200 price.

And this is why nobody takes this section of the boards seriously.

Linna Excel2 votes

While I like some stat efficiency, youmuu's isn't an item I'd fight for to keep that much efficiency considering it's an ADC item mainly and ADCs already have a bunch of zeal items giving them AS and MS.

Void Nargacuga1 votes

On very few Marksman is it possibly a good item to get. Like on Twitch with Runnan's Hurricane for example. There might be more but I can't think of them right now.

Dediguise1 votes

I'd argue that increasing the cool down on the active would be enough. Even just making it 60 sec

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