Why no AD supports?

Looknook·Jan 13, 2017·26 votes·4,067 views

Right now Mages are creeping their way into bot lane, allowing for some neat variation within the lane but I do wanna ask, why are AD supports not a thing.

Is it because AD support is simply too feast or famine or is it just not something that's done. Full AP supports with little utility happens, such as Brand, Velkoz, and Zyra. So why not full AD supports with little utility, but more towards AD Casters, so champs focus around using abilities. These champs could include but are not limited to Trundle, Jarvan, and Urgot. All three of those champs have utility that helps their team, but all of them also like at least a little AD to work.

So are AD supports not a thing due to being a bad idea or due to them not having a support item that helps. Or can current support items work with AD supports?

79 Comments

EedatJan 13, 201715 votes

Because AD is very expensive

You either cheese an early advantage and snowball or because absolutely useless

Supreme Senpai69Jan 14, 20171 votes

It's the entire reason ADCs go bot with a support. They need gold but not necessarily levels. So they have someone there to protect them from ganks and the enemy so they can farm and to even possibly feed them kills to get gold. AD scales really hard with items to the point they're almost just walking bundles of items.

Combine that with a class whose identity revolves around being gold starved lol

dunder killJan 14, 20171 votes

Supports actually lane with the ADC because ADCs are extremely gold reliant, but relatively less XP reliant than other classes. So they can afford to split sole XP with supports

Supreme Senpai69Jan 15, 20171 votes

That's like... literally what I said lol

XIII VanitasJan 13, 201712 votes

Trundle and Sion are physical damage supports that have been played/are currently played.

JRobin31Jan 14, 20171 votes

The answer is that there are AD supports BUT

RIOT doesn't provide items for AD supports.

For example, there is Relic, Spellthief, and Coin. These options are for AP or tanky supports, but don't really support an AD style support.

RIOT isn't currently giving AD supports itemization options compared to other kinds of supports. This isn't because AD supports can't be viable, but because RIOT had tunneled in on certain support options and left the AD options out to dry.

Some players might say: but the ADC should be scaling with AD, so the support should not. Hue hue hue, not so, my friend, not so.

Very Hard EngageJan 13, 201710 votes

"support" Pantheon

"support" Rengar

most people just dont like having a kill lane, especially when it doesn't pan out and you get ganked and have nothing to do but either go in, or crawl out.

dominusxJan 13, 20172 votes

5-0 with reng supp here cuck autofill xd

SmileInABoxJan 13, 20172 votes

Panth support is legit.

Restless SlumberJan 13, 20177 votes

AD items cost more than AP items, making AD supports bad. If you want to go an AD support you have to build them tank, otherwise you are going to be super useless as your powerspikes take too long to buy because of the low gold income that supports have.

RamboDash15Jan 13, 20175 votes

Gangplank Urgot are poke masters Ashe You might still be able to pull it off, haven't tried since the rework

YrzenJan 14, 20171 votes

I have played every single champion I own as a support and Ashe support is by far the worst out of all of them.

She is an ult bot with hardly any slows due to her lack of crit and a few weak Volleys every so often. She's completely outclassed by Sona and Kalista Support.

macromiteJan 14, 20171 votes

Mordekaiser

I guess you did say only champions you own, but ashe is by no means the worst possible support.

SpoofghoulJan 14, 20175 votes

Poppy Sion Trundle MissFortune JarvanIV Yorick

all work as ''AD''supports

Meep ManJan 13, 20174 votes

Sion and Trundle are the premiere (I forgot how to spell this word) AD Supports.

RalanrJan 13, 20173 votes

Supports are basically heavy utility. Even mage supports have good utility. You need to have decent utility to pull off support (I've seen Camille support work because of her stun).

Personally when I think of AD supports, I imagine more bruiser oriented supports closer to Taric and Thresh but with AD scalings so they can buy some items the carries won't. Like mortal reminder.

l MrD lJan 13, 20172 votes

You could say AD support could be thresh since his E increases his auto damage based on souls and total AD Or even ashe lol

But the main reason is supports arent there for damage. AD is used to increase certain ability damage (zed Q etc) and autoes but why would a support need auto damage when its all about their skills which buff and debuff targets rather than dishing out damage

YuGiHoJan 13, 20172 votes

Alistar should be a ad champ, just change everything to an ad ratio.

Ferus and FerrumJan 13, 20171 votes

Wouldn't work, He'd just get shoved into toplane or the jungle. Then he'd get nerfed until the AD ratios were such garbage you didnt bother building it on him anymore. It wouldnt change a thing

YuGiHoJan 13, 20171 votes

i dont think so. it see it being like poppy(minus the shield,%dmg, %armor+mr, low cooldowns). he would have ad ratios and deal physical dmg but he would still be building full tank. even as ap ali dmg is not good enough to put him in a solo lane and the jungle is reall iffy he has to gank wayyyy mor than he farms because he clears sooooo slo and just runs oom by the time hes ready to gank.

I QJan 13, 20171 votes

Leona came out with the idea stated. She was a toplaner, but was forced into the support role and did ridiculous damage while providing her CC. Alistar will do the same.

YuGiHoJan 14, 20171 votes

but leona is all ap too just like cow. if she was ad or ap/ad hybrid like eve or jax you still dont think that could work?

I QJan 14, 20171 votes

He'd turn out like Zac , really good jungle and a really good lane. They nerfed his laning to the ground to make his jungling easier to balance.

ImTheSideKickJan 13, 20172 votes

I used ashe as a support during juggernaut patch. it worked wonders

Ashe item 3020 item 3092 item 2045 item 3151 item 3050 item 3071

tho I don't know if my build counts as ad.... still hp burns on every volley and ult. free crit for me and the adc. armor shreds. max cdr. and a ult that could 50% any carry... plus it was funny to see 2 or 3 juggernauts trying to go anywhere when slowed none stop

also could see a lee sin as a good support.. tho he may not like to use his wards on the river...

warmcorntortillaJan 14, 20172 votes

I'd wager because there's no AD gold income item, and the reason being because ADCs would abuse the shit out of it.

That's my guess, anyway.

ElishevaJan 14, 20172 votes

Gnar Kalista Sion ;)

GreenjeyJan 14, 20172 votes

Nobody here is talking about Poppy ?

She got some amazing peel and engage possibilities.

The DeckownerJan 14, 20172 votes

Support Ashe used to be a thing.

Chamuel85Jan 13, 20171 votes

You mean like Miss Fortune which I do see semi regularly since I main Zyra and people think MF counters Zyra cuz of world's last year.

ErockandrollJan 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You mean like Miss Fortune which I do see semi regularly since I main Zyra and people think MF counters Zyra cuz of world's last year.

It was picked as a counter to Zyra, but it wasn't enough to justify the pick. Support MF only really worked in conjunction with Ashe, to make up for the lack of CC MF had, as well as their wombo combo.

As for OP's question, Anyone with enough damage to farm lane, would probably better off farming a lane. Also, it would be difficult to support an AD Support item, that wouldn't get abused by the ADC.

RozairJan 13, 20171 votes

Not really. Make it melee only and problem solved. Just like relic sheild

LooknookJan 13, 20171 votes

Or make it so if minions are killed it turns off for a bit like spell theifs.

I QJan 13, 20171 votes

People still take spell theifs mid.

ErockandrollJan 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not really. Make it melee only and problem solved. Just like relic sheild

Yuk, most melee's should not go glass cannon, and with that in mind, the Relic shield would still serve as a decent support item for most Melee's.

But even with Melee only, your still run into a possible potential of inviting a Melee ADC bot laner with such itemization. That might not be a bad thing, but it wouldn't get you the result your looking for.

RozairJan 14, 20171 votes

old Zekes herald was an ad support item

elon wątrobaJan 14, 20171 votes

#buffblizcrank2017

the original top lane fighter showed into bot.

SogrethJan 14, 20171 votes

I think it could be abused. I just....have a really bad feeling.

As much as I want an AD Support. I just feel like it will be abused like crazy.

{quoted}

Right now Mages are creeping their way into bot lane

This has been happening for yyeeaarrss. It's really nothing new.

GamerThinkJan 14, 20171 votes

Gangplank item 3401 item 2045 item 3025 item 3190 works quite good as a support, and counters stuff like Morgana with his W. Good early (Q & item 3302 combo, plus Q on champs gains 10 gold each time with mastery), good tank, good slow, no hard cc though, so you need the right team comp to use it.

SogrethJan 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

works quite good as a support, and counters stuff like with his W. Good early (Q & combo, plus Q on champs gains 10 gold each time with mastery), good tank, good slow, no hard cc though, so you need the right team comp to use it.

I used to play GP support before his rework. I worked a LOT better before.

GamerThinkJan 14, 20171 votes

Maybe... but when you hit with barrels your adc loves you! :)

Chaos689Jan 14, 20171 votes

Lul neat variation

Annie Velkoz Veigar Ziggs

Snowman ArcJan 14, 20171 votes

Because there aren't a lot of AD champions that can fit the poking style efficiently and have the cc to do so. Brand works because he has safe poke, easy itemization, deals damage and has come CC on his Q. Jarvan can't do the same thing reliably, because he is melee, where Brand is ranged. Ezreal can't either, because his poke is blocked by minions and also needs damage items to deal decent poke damage.

3TWarriorJan 14, 20171 votes

if you would like to try it, support Mundo is pretty decent with his high base damages. Just build him to work with relic shield and a few support items with defensive stuff and he can hold his own

his Q also has a true damage minimum, so it only gets better early and the longer the game lasts, the stronger he gets.

the problem though is that most unconventional supports get cheesed by blitzcrank and thresh

LatetotheRaceJan 14, 20171 votes

Mundo's primary output is magic damage.

TheGoomyGamerJan 14, 20171 votes

Sion is an OP support but a bit too reliant on snowballing, in korea trundle is a supp

AngryDentistJan 14, 20171 votes

I've toyed with the idea in a few normals, mostly because I rather like the idea of an AD Black Clleaver core support, or if for whatever reason I didn't feel like playing Teemo support again at that time.

I tried support out just once just for shits and giggles, and there's a whole story behind how awesome that match was and the level of camaraderie between complete strangers that I witnessed that day, but to keep my point concise: relic cleaver core Renekton support is definitely not the worst thing ever if your team is built to tower dive for days, and the enemy Jhin made a point to snipe your Sejuani jungle's gromp at the start of the match with a smarmy "thanks"...although I'll probably never play it again.

Aatrox relic cleaver + tank (sometimes even abyssal scepter) support is meh, with the main problem for me being that it's squishy as hell obviously, but the E spam poke in lane is terrifically annoying and it's not a bad peeling tool. Not bad either that you can both sustain and help push the lane with your W passive procs, on top of relic procs.

Kled relic cleaver support is probably alright.

SkywallkerAJan 14, 20171 votes

Supports are not meant to deal damage past the early game. Those who do are just midlaners being played in the support position. Karma, morgana, annie, zyra, brand are all champions that was designed for solo lanes

BeldairJan 14, 20171 votes

Karma was actually designed for both solo and duo..

Morgana was designed for Duo lanes...hence why she is a Support/Mage.

SkywallkerAJan 15, 20171 votes

My point still stands.

Also Morgana has her primary role as mage and support as secondary, got played mid back in the day and, has an ability (tormented soil) and passive that is completely selfish, and has the ap scaling's of a midlaner, she also predates the Metagame we all follow today.

Karma being designed for both doesn't change much