Ivern will never be viable

Chaos689·Oct 12, 2016·2 votes·3,714 views

The title has no relevance to the substance of this post. This post is actually about Kalista's winrate. As an outplay champion filling the ADC role, Kalista is a very interesting concept. Her unique passive enables a skilled and practiced player to use her very well, but she is not overly powerful by design. Kalista is a wonderful addition to the champion pool, and can be very strong. Unfortunately, her numbers at the moment just aren't viable. Her winrate is at 41.2%.

As Kalista's core ability, I propose a slight buff to her E, and possibly to her W as well. Her E is jsut a simple buff, and her W is an interesting vision spell. Can anybody suggest a good change to Kalista's E that would make her more viable? Riot, I don't main her, but she's too weak.

28 Comments

Critmaster GarenOct 12, 20164 votes

{quoted}

His design is awful. Let's all just face it, his kit is gimmick after gimmick and he's absolutely useless. In all the games i've played with iverns (on my team or the enemy) I have never seen a successful Ivern gank. As a matter of fact, I haven't seen any Ivern get a single kill without at least two teammates helping. Ivern's damage and attack power is laughable, his defense is quirky, his ult is about as useful as Sion's passive, his synergy is a shield, his gank is pointless, he kills himself clearing the jungle, and WHY DOES HIS W EVEN EXIST?

hes a support.

stop playing as if hes a mage, and start playing him like a support who sets his teammates up for kills, and it will get better.

a beefy build focused on defenses is also much better on him than a squishy ap build.

awdafOct 12, 20163 votes

Wait a month or two, he will be 100% pick/ban.

Chaos689Oct 12, 20161 votes

Only if they rework his Q to do 100% max health dmge, because nothing else in his kit has a reason to exist...

RalanrOct 12, 20168 votes

This exaggeration seems to be a side effect of salt overdose.

ApolloclipticOct 12, 20161 votes

The OP is just an idiot, not to be offensive, but seriously, nothing in his argument makes sense, but it's laughable and made me smile as I move on

Chaos689Oct 12, 20161 votes

"Not to be offensive, but I'm gonna say something intended to be offensive."

ApolloclipticOct 12, 20161 votes

LOL I meant it to be literal not offensive, there is a difference :P

By definition of the term and the argument portrayed compared to the information available, the lack of rational thinking leads me to think that their is a lack intelligent processing. Technically something like 40% of the population fall into this category

Chaos689Oct 12, 20161 votes

So you think Kalista need NERFS?

RalanrOct 12, 20163 votes

Well being a support heavy jungler, he's not supposed to get many kills.

True his first clear costs a lot with his passive, as most good Jungle champions revolve around good sustain so they clear without too much damage. But that could be something Riot looks into.

As for viability, in soloQ I agree. His kit requires too much coordination to be viable solo. In coordinated team play he might actually be terrifying. We won't know until the pros get a better chance to play him after worlds.

Wolfram OxfordOct 12, 20163 votes

You don't think he is good? His bushes deter people from attacking towers, they also enable people, his Q is good for engage and picking people off, his shield is good for safety and burst, and his ultimate provides good damage, and another target to focus. If they make Rylais work with his ult he will be even better. OHHHH AND HE CAN SHARE BUFFS! That makes it so if he is red side he can give a kill lane top laner like Renekton or Riven red buff just to make the enemy top laners life that much worse, if he is blue side Jayce, Swain, or any other laner that needs to spam spells is going to be at an even greater advantage.

RalanrOct 12, 20161 votes

I have yet to find good uses for his W. Can you give me tips?

Critmaster GarenOct 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I have yet to find good uses for his W. Can you give me tips?

id say saving a teammates butt. you can break vision of the enemy adc on an ally for example.

and then there are specific champions with bush interaction, like rengar.

RalanrOct 12, 20161 votes

The specific interactions with champions are cool, but it's unlikely to happen because Ivern and Rengar share the same position. Yes either could go to another position but it really weakens them IMO.

As for vision breaking, I'll have to study up on bush effects. I'll admit that the mechanics and tricks you can pull off with bushes are pretty foreign to me beyond the basics.

Wolfram OxfordOct 12, 20161 votes

[deleted]

RalanrOct 12, 20161 votes

Do you mean his E shield?

NavaruneOct 12, 20161 votes

I think you've confused Brushmaker (W) with Triggerseed (E).

NavaruneOct 12, 20163 votes

Aside from the point he already made (effective cover for siege defense), my personal favorite use for them is securing dragon and/or baron. This requires you to sweep the pit (which you should do anyway), but after that you block the entrance with the brush so the enemy team can't get vision of the monster without face-checking the pit altogether rather than getting just close enough in the river to see it's health.

RalanrOct 12, 20161 votes

Oh that's good.

ReshiKillimOct 12, 20161 votes

It's super good with Caitlyn and Rengar, as well as how you can stop an enemy from AAing or using targeted abilities if you spawn the bush around an ally.

With some really clever bush placements and positioning, you can take a warded drake (or herald) without being detected, and you can use it to prevent enemy junglers from smiting down baron/drake because bushes stealth them.

And hiding a max size cho with it is always worth it.

LXIIOct 12, 20161 votes

I mean I throw them down whenever I'm fighting or chasing an enemy so I can get the extra range and damage on autos.

ApolloclipticOct 12, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RHBuUQxQ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-12T15:16:19.834+0000)

You don't think he is good? His bushes deter people from attacking towers, they also enable people, his Q is good for engage and picking people off, his shield is good for safety and burst, and his ultimate provides good damage, and another target to focus. If they make Rylais work with his ult he will be even better. OHHHH AND HE CAN SHARE BUFFS! That makes it so if he is red side he can give a kill lane top laner like Renekton or Riven red buff just to make the enemy top laners life that much worse, if he is blue side Jayce, Swain, or any other laner that needs to spam spells is going to be at an even greater advantage.

Quick test, Rylais has bad synergy with him, but Frozen Mallet DOES in fact work on Daisy's autos, I suggest building it second or third if you play him

As for damage, his highest damage build is focussed on AS and AP (like nashors tooth) or survivability while Daisy deals damage instead with an AP bruiser build, full AP is weak because of his scaling, low mobility and unreliable skills in terms of offensive plays

Chaos689Oct 12, 20162 votes

Lol guys read the post not the title?

AstôlfoOct 12, 20161 votes

Your common sense will never be viable either.

soh1gh2Oct 12, 20161 votes

op is the type of person to greif you all game and steal your jung if you pick ivern and wonder why he's behind

Chaos689Oct 12, 20161 votes

But I main jungle...

Blumpkin NationOct 12, 20161 votes

I like everything about his kit, tbh. I think his Q is really wonky, though. It's difficult to land and doesn't provide as much utility as I'd like for the long initial cool down.

I'd like to see either:

The root duration increased at earlier levels.
Width increased
Missile speed increased
Add bonus damage when an ally (NOT Ivern) clicks the rooted target and moves into basic attack range.
More forest effect particles. I wanna hear twigs snapping.

edit: again, none of these at the same time. JUST one; with the exception of 5).

StephenizgodOct 12, 20161 votes

Really? Ivern is very very viable actually, his role on the team is one that is incredibly useful and powerful in the right hands. I have played with several Iverns who have been successful in being useful. The main thing to remember when playing Ivern is this: You are not a carry, you are not the hero, you will not be killing the enemies much. Your job is to be a secondary Support, and a damned good one at that.

Ivern is pretty strong in several areas actually, he has a ton of CC and Utility. That Root + Gap Closer is freaking beautiful, try playing him with someone like Irelia. She won't need to use her Q to get in there anymore. The ult is great at tanking for objectives, its also good at teamfighting supposing you position it correctly. The bush thing is freakin broke, I have seen several Iverns use it correctly and it is amazing.

As everyone else is saying, wait just a bit longer (probably after Worlds) when the pros and top tier start using him. He will be Pick/Ban.

RequiemsfireOct 12, 20161 votes

Why's a gimmick a bad thing? lol

Btw Ivern fills a very particular niche as a support jungler. Just because you have anecdotal evidence of a player not succeeding doesn't mean he won't succeed at fulfilling that role in a meta.