What's with the Trynd hate all of a sudden?

Around999People·Apr 1, 2017·42 votes·4,297 views

A month ago no one mentioned Trynd. Two months ago no one mentioned Trynd. Three months even maybe. Now, out of nowhere there's a ton of topics hating on trynd and idek why.

143 Comments

Taliyah RocksApr 1, 201724 votes

People hate him mostly because he's a duelist that makes it almost impossible for anyone to win against him. Unlike Fiora who has to use her kit properly to block spells, dodge abilities and etc. All Tryn has to do is press R and he becomes unkillable.

But more than anything...

Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush... Splitpush...

That's literally all he'll do all game beside a few teleport here and there to snatch a few kills. His gameplay makes it very uninteractive for the enemy player.

Around999PeopleApr 1, 20175 votes

But he's also hard countered by something as simple as ignite for his ult. Otherwise, the split pushing is just like a Nasus

Taliyah RocksApr 1, 201714 votes

{quoted}

But he's also hard countered by something as simple as ignite for his ult. Otherwise, the split pushing is just like a Nasus

Unlike Nasus he has mobility to either dive squishies or escape. Sure he's not a tanky raidboss like Nasus, but it's really hard to stop a Tryn from splitpushing. Even if you push him away, he'll probably be hiding in the jungle until he can resume his push.

His Q is often enough to save him even through ignite.

Also wanna know who's even more countered by ignite? Illaoi DrMundo Aatrox These champs rely on their sustain to stay alive.

AnidanApr 2, 20176 votes

Alright, but you didn't answer why now. Why not earlier? Absolutely none of this of new - it's been here since day one. Why now, and not earlier? It sounds like it's partly because of your answer, but mostly because the boards just swaps to a new target every so often because they can, not caring who they target - easy champions being the primary targets, because "why are they so effective while being so brainless?" I think more than anything it's just Tryn's time, and it'll pass whether Riot does anything or just continues to ignore it. It's happened before and it'll happen more.

cocacolalipsApr 2, 20173 votes

your comment smells bronze af tbh

tryndamere kind of blows, he is predictable, easy to kite, easy to itemize against, and if you are worried about splitpush, you take baron, group and push his lane or whatever lane till you win, 5 man push > 1 man push.

he is no more non interactive that any other melee duelist that kicks ass in duels haha, hell, he is probably the worst of em all, I would pick fiora, jax, irelia even master yi over him.

you want a non interactive champion? all the mages that spam buttons from 3 screens away, now that's some non interactive gameplay, the poor guys are literally playing alone against the wall while you also are playing your own mini game alone, sit there and dodge stuff rofl

Handy Sandy Apr 1, 201718 votes

He's one of those champions that nobody talks about but is still extremely annoying and can still be a giant threat to you even if he's 1/8 like MasterYi

Around999PeopleApr 1, 20176 votes

So because a champion is a late game champ they should be hated? I.e. Veig, Thresh, Sion, Nasus, etc.

MarshbouyApr 1, 201711 votes

So because a champion is a late game champ they should be hated? I.e. Veig, Thresh, Sion, Nasus, etc.

no, because he has a kit that basically forces you to have more than one teammate with you to fight him. He can still be a massive threat in the game even when 1/8 because his kit makes him one of if not the best splitpusher in the game.

Around999PeopleApr 1, 20173 votes

So can nearly every hyper carry in the game. Vayne, Jinx, Fiora, Azir, etc.

MarshbouyApr 1, 20179 votes

{quoted}

So can nearly every hyper carry in the game. Vayne, Jinx, Fiora, Azir, etc.

None of those champions have anything like his ult. His ult is the epicenter of frustration. I personally don't agree with most of the tryndamere hate since I feel that a good Shaco is a more frustrating splitpusher at times but both can be dealt with easily.

The boards just do this. They pick a champion and whine about them. No reason to loose hair over it.

Around999PeopleApr 1, 20172 votes

Kindrid? Kayle? Zillian? Aatrox?

But you're right.

statelesskillerApr 1, 20176 votes

kindreds is fair because its aoe and it affects EVERYTHING with a health bar and she can be cced to prevent her from casting it. kayles is short ranged and not that long of a duration and she can be cced to prevent her from casting it. zillieans is fair beause you can again CC him to stop himfrom casting it. AND just kill whoever he ults because you simply force his team back and then 1v5 gangbang the unlucky motherfucker. aatrox is fair because he loses ALOT to get revived

tryndameres however there is no counter play to it. he has 5 seconds of there is nothing you can do to kill me AND you cant even stop me from pressing it to live

the difference between all the other examples is that they have COUNTERPLAY AND COST. while tryndamere just . . .doesnt

TheSnackenApr 1, 20174 votes

Sorry, just wanted to add: Trynd gets a massive buff from using it. Everyone else's is a power loss or at the very least power-neutral.

cocacolalipsApr 2, 20173 votes

You are clearly biased.

Tryndamere builds dmg to do dmg, that means he is fragile without his R, that means you can bait his R or force him to use it and then kill him. That means there are clear windows where he is strong and where he is weak, windows which you can take advantage of to win. His dmg is also physical, and he is an auto attacker, means defensive items and defensive skills are really good against him.

Now compare that to Fiora who builds bruiser and still 3 shots you. She is always really tanky, and she always does tons of dmg (dmg you can't itemize against btw). 0 window, no real moment where she is weak perse that you can take advantage of, thus no real way to outplay or out-maneuver her.

KyunseiApr 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You are clearly biased.

Tryndamere builds dmg to do dmg, that means he is fragile without his R, that means you can bait his R or force him to use it and then kill him. That means there are clear windows where he is strong and where he is weak, windows which you can take advantage of to win. His dmg is also physical, and he is an auto attacker, means defensive items and defensive skills are really good against him.

Now compare that to Fiora who builds bruiser and still 3 shots you. She is always really tanky, and she always does tons of dmg (dmg you can't itemize against btw). 0 window, no real moment where she is weak perse that you can take advantage of, thus no real way to outplay or out-maneuver her.

Same feeling globally. Except Tryndamere won't die for 5 seconds no matter what, I suppose that's where all the frustration around him come from initially, there's no outplay to his ult, he's automatically outplaying people during 5 seconds.

His ult should probably be more playable around for his opponents, if you're interested, I'm looking here for making his ult less bland/binary.

cocacolalipsApr 2, 20173 votes

Tryndamere is from that time period where champions were made with a really powerful R (annie, ashe, amumu, alistar, poppy, etc...) and a very simple/mediocre QWEpassive, to create momentum and moments that both felt good and impactful.

While that may feel good or cool momentary, those champions turn out to be a bit binary, since so much of their power budget is on their R, thus they are op with R up and up with R down, which can be a bit problematic or unsatisfactory in the long run.

Riot has been moving away from that design over the years to make champions that feel more complete without their R, adding more interesting passives, giving each ability multiple effects or uses, and moving away some power from their R to the rest of their kit either when tuning a champion up and down or when those champions need to keep up with the power creep. (ashe Q, alistar R nerfs, poppy rework)

I don't think tryndamere is the worst of the bunch tho as he is currently, he is bit weak without his R and bit strong with it, but his gameplay or play pattern is very acceptable imo, with ups and downs, and stuff to play around (healing reduction for his heal, turn around when he W, avoid the spin, kite and trade since he has no real burst, build armor and attack speed slow) and there are a lot of champions who are a lot more obnoxious and difficult to deal with from bronze all the way to lcs, hence why he is simply never banned or why he isn't on riot update list just yet.

Your proposed changes seem okay although I have no idea how it would work in practice, you understand the champion needs undying rage or some other defensive mechanism to survive fights, so he can work okay even his R is down, don't really like the stun on R (I don't really like crowd control much in general ;o) but it's okay. I think more changes could be made to help him in fights and teamfights, but that's maybe beyond the scope of one champion since it kind of affects all melee champions really, good duelists, poor team fighters.

What do you think of giving Kalista passive where she hops around to a melee champion?

Big LincolnApr 1, 20179 votes

because bork buff put him back into being a pickable champion and people are remembering that he's horse shit

Around999PeopleApr 1, 20173 votes

How's he horse shit?

Big LincolnApr 1, 20177 votes

either cheeses you with ignite at level 2 or spends all lane phase being a pussy hoping his lane gets bored and roams so he can get CS

fuck tryndamere annoying shit that he is, I have to pick mord just so I can stomp him for free and I hate playing mord

skyskee008Apr 2, 20173 votes

Or rushes tiamat and autopushes you into tower so he can invade your JG/gank other lanes.

Anyways, he doesn't care because once he hits level 6 he has innate kill pressure on you if you haven't rushed tabis in that time.

Most trynds will just shove every wave they see on the whole map and farm everything even if they can't duel their lane opponent they get shiv/tiamat and outpush and outroam with E and stall the game until they CAN 1v1 you or 1-shot your backline.

SnakDatSmilesBakApr 1, 20175 votes

It's because of his un-interactive gameplay. The only way to play against a tryndamere in my experience is to shut him down early and then babysit top lane for the rest of the game. If you leave top lane once you probably lose towers. Twice nets him an inhib and soon enough he's on your nexus turrets while you run around trying to secure objectives with your team. People queue up for games to play league, not to play "sit in top lane for 40 minutes". And while other split pushers also split push, none do so with the ability to escape like tryndamere and the ability to fight like him. Either they can't run away or they can't fight as well but very few can do both. Overall I think the hate stems from how few options tryndamere leaves for the opposing team and I'm with it. I think it's awfully boring to play against and really really annoying.

He does exactly one thing but that thing happens to be the most un-interactive strategy that exists in LOL. He is an extraordinarily binary, stat-check, champ who forces you to play the game in the way he wants FOR THE WHOLE GAME.

Oh and sometimes it only takes one voice to bring a lot of unsaid things to the surface.

EDIT: if ur downvoting me tell me why so ik what i said that offended you otherwise ur downvote is kinda pointless to me

Around999PeopleApr 1, 20175 votes

Un-interactive gameplay? How is it less interactive than most of the marksman? How is it less interactive than a singed? How is it less interactive than a Master Yi? Etc.

So having a champion which you need to be constantly shutting down is a bad experience? How about Nasus? Vayne? Yas? Xin? Master Yi?

SnakDatSmilesBakApr 1, 20175 votes

Like i said none of those champs can run away as well as tryndamere can. If you are strong you can fight those champions and come out on top but tryndamere will either win or run away even if you bring two champs a lot of the time.

For nasus it's really hard to run from two champs when at least one of them has cc. He also doesn't kill someone in a second.

Vayne is so squishy and she's never going to be split pushing by herself idk why you brought her up.

Yas while he might split push falls into the same category as nasus, he takes set up to kill someone and has counterplay since you can dodge his abilities. He also can't run away as well as tryndamere can.

Again xin can not run away like tryndamere can, nor does he deal as much damage as quickly.

Yi is the closest thing you could compare him to and the only champ that you named who is similar enough to compare him to. Yi has a similar style of play and kills as quickly or in a somewhat similar time frame. However, yi does not have an ult that allows him to keep autoing long after he reaches 0hp.

Singed will not take towers as fast and trynd so you have some time to do things with your team.

Also most of the marksmen will group with their team to take objectives while tryndamere plans to sit in top lane pushing for the entire game.

Anything else?

JulanusApr 1, 20174 votes

Tryn's job is to splitpush, draw enemy pressure to his lane, and survive. He literally is never required to actually fight the opposing team, and if he's utilizing vision well, Tryn will be gone before the enemy is even able to touch him.

That is non-interactive gameplay. Tryn does his job without ever needing to be in a fight. He certainly has the tools to win fights, but it's not a requirement for him to be effective.

Nasus is probably the only one in your list that fills a similar position, though he's less "splitpush" and more "farming simulator".

Scary DoorApr 1, 20179 votes

ADCs are pretty much free kills if by themselves (especially if they are at all behind), they are intended to team fight, carefully chosing targets or attacking the most opportune/available nearby champion.

Master Yi can certainly split push, but he can still be caught out if flanked and is, if played correctly, a far better assassin than split pusher in the current meta... not saying he's great, but is FAR more interactive than Trynd.

Trynd, on the other hand, has no interaction whatsoever unless he wants to... it's simple; try to gank a Tryndamere. Spoiler alert: You can't. Try to catch a split pushing Tryndamere, you can't. Maybe you're an assassin that thinks "oh, Trynd is all by himself top lane, I'll just go up there and kill him, he's a level and three kills behind, why not?" You jump on Trynd and he can either, use his E and fly through a wall leaving you in the dust or fight you with his free 35% crit chance and even if you start winning a trade he just presses his "I win" invincibility button and outduels you.

Trynd is not overpowered per se, but he presents a balancing and game health challenge that Riot has shoved to the very back of the closet for a long time. His level 2 cheese is worse than pre-rework Gangplank and his playstyle gives him essentially just one way to play the game (one dimensional) effectively. Can he jungle? Sure. But if you jungle Trynd you'll probably just end up in the same place eventually... split pushing a lane and dashing away the moment anyone gets near you.

Any game with a Trynd typically turns into a 4v4, because someone has to babysit the lane he pushes or else he'll just take every tower easily.

It's not fun, interactive or healthy for the game, hasn't been for a long time and people are bringing it up again. It will go away in a few days and Riot will leave it alone as they have for years now.

SpyndamereApr 1, 20175 votes

Anyone want to discuss their issues with trynd with a trynd main? I'm happy to have a discussion

Around999PeopleApr 1, 20172 votes

I'm an old trynd main, been defending him

TheSnackenApr 1, 20171 votes

I'd like to discuss! Bear in mind, while I've played against plenty of trynd, I myself am absolute ass with him. Not sure why, to be honest. Probably too cautious.

Anywyay. So I know trynd mains tend to make a sport of defending him, so lets say we rebalance him to be less frustrating. Give his ult some actual counterplay, since he can use it through CC and gets 1/3+ Fury from it, and then becomes immune to dying for 5s.

My suggestion has been to backload damage against it; basically cause him to "save" the damage he takes to reduce him to 0, then take it slowly over time. Good fights, it turns him from unkillable but still bad to an absolute monster if he's playing right.

There's also OP's suggestion, which I think is pretty good, or a combination of the two. After making some amalgam of those changes to Tryndamere's ult, how would we need to redistribute power into his kit to make him still be fun, balanced, fair, etc?

Mostro GalloApr 1, 20173 votes

I am all for making it so that he can't use his ult through CC. He can even use it through silence, which is silly.

Death by GlamourApr 1, 20174 votes

People are beginning to catch on to him after more and more champions are being released or reworked.

It's true what they are saying though he is pretty boring to play against and is fairly bland as a champion

Around999PeopleApr 1, 20174 votes

I was a trynd main and he's one of the more fun champs to play imo. How's it boring? By staying competitive all game? Since when is a champion being competitive at all stages of a game mean it's a bad champ?

Death by GlamourApr 1, 20172 votes

I said boring to play against, he split pushes all game... it's hardly exciting lol

Around999PeopleApr 1, 20171 votes

Why's that an issue if he split pushes? Nasus does it. Hell, most midlaners do it.

Death by GlamourApr 1, 20171 votes

And as unpopular as it may be I believe Susan needs a rework as well

BALDG1VEN BOOMERApr 1, 20174 votes

Well with Riot trying to make crit interactive it's only fair Tryndamere should soon be updated, he's just a walking RNG machine really getting free crit via is basic attacks and just playing against that isn't really fun or interactive.

Around999PeopleApr 1, 20171 votes

How's Yas's crit interactive? Hell, how's any crit interactive? Ashe literally get's crit for right clicking.

Sraeg2013Apr 2, 20172 votes

Well, Yasuo is going to reach 100% crit chance at which point it stops being RNG and becomes a flat damage increase.

SalsonApr 1, 20174 votes

It's not really hate, hes just outdated. Urgot and Evelynn reworks are probably half-done and people are "voting" on next candidates. I wanna see Nunu Rammus and Malphite for instance, mostly cause tryn's model is actually decent.

GrReaper96Apr 1, 20174 votes

How to update Nunu:

Remove Nunu Leave Willump ??? Profit

AldapsayarApr 2, 20174 votes

Sheeps

RottedApplesApr 2, 20174 votes

this is how the hive mind of the boards works.

SociopathFriendApr 2, 20174 votes

A month ago no one mentioned Trynd. Two months ago no one mentioned Trynd. Three months even maybe. Now, out of nowhere there's a ton of topics hating on trynd and idek why.

Because when one topic exists, everyone must jump on board.