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Rengar Rework? My thoughts, attempting to be as detailed as possible.

Noctum Flower··15 votes·1,205 views

So I've been a Rengar Rengar 1 trick for a while, the rework honestly has killed my idea for even touching him. And every single game I play of him, is just no longer fun to me. I feel as if Rengar has lost his thematic core as a hunter who seeks the strongest prey. And he's now just a bruiser black cleaver stealth tank THING. So I heard a Rioter finally responded with all the Rengar mains complaining how Riot didn't listen to what they say at all. So here's my projected idea for possible changes to his Kit. I don't actually use Reddit, but I do check out R/RengarMains from time to time they say some interesting stuff. This is gonna be a long post since I feel as if I need to be as in depth as possible. Note. I want to make this seem as fair as possible. However I still want him to remain as an assassin, if he deletes you cuz he's 20/5 that's honestly reasonable. I just don't want him to powercreep and delete you just because he got Tiamet item 3077 , Youmuus item 3142 and his jungle item. While being behind all game, and you're an ADC with just Ninja Tabi's item 3047 and GA item 3026 and you wonder why he deleted you in 0.1 seconds.

Passive

INNATE: While in brush or invisible, Rengar's basic attacks have increasing range from up to 650 / 725 and cause him to leap to enemies beyond melee range. This bonus lasts for 0.5 seconds upon exiting brush or stealth. Leaping when on 0 Ferocity generates 1 Ferocity.

The Leap Range Needs To Be Smaller at Early Ranks. Rengar leaping to you with basically twice the flash distance is kinda unhealthy. The Leap in general isn't that fair towards enemies. Breaking out of stealth and releasing everything is pretty ??? I feel like decreasing the leap range would put in a better early game however increasing it due to my new idea on bonetooth would be a lot more healthy. Also can we bring back the old leap sound. I really liked it man. I want his ability to activate tiamet to return, and possbily revert the changes to bola being fired in the air.

FEROCITY: Rengar generates 1 Ferocity whenever he casts a basic ability. Upon reaching 4 Ferocity, his next basic ability is empowered, can be cast independently of its basic version's cooldown, incurs no cooldown of its own, grants Rengar 30 / 40 / 50% bonus movement speed for 1.5 seconds, and consumes all of his Ferocity. All Ferocity is lost after being out-of-combat for 8 (one more second from current) seconds.

I like this new ferocity system. Smart decision on Riot. LET'S BE REAL HERE. Leaping out of stealth and deleting someone with an empowered ability is fun for the player. Not at all for the person being killed. Instant snare as well is kinda FeelsBadMan. Not sure if adding the extra second is smart but, I feel as if adding it would help a lot more with his clears.

BONETOOTH NECKLACE: Rengar gains a trophy whenever a champion he damaged in the previous 1.5 seconds dies. Rengar can only gain 2 trophies per enemy champion, up to 10. The first 5 trophies give bonus attack damage. After this 5, he gains rewards that help his other abilities. A total of 10 Trophies are earn-able with an additional trophy made available through the event The Hunt is On! Making the cap 11. 1 TROPHY: Rengar gains 1 (+ 1% bonus AD) bonus attack damage. 2 TROPHIES: Rengar gains 3 (+ 3% bonus AD) bonus attack damage. 3 TROPHIES: Rengar gains 7 (+ 7% bonus AD) bonus attack damage. 4 TROPHIES: Rengar gains 13 (+ 13% bonus AD) bonus attack damage. 5 TROPHIES: Rengar gains 20 (+ 20% bonus AD) bonus attack damage.

6 TROPHIES: Unseen Predator gains 125 bonus range. 7 TROPHIES: Battle Roar gains increasing stats. 8 TROPHIES: Bola Strike gains a heavier slow for 2.3 seconds with decay and empowered it increases the snare to 2 seconds. 9 TROPHIES: Thrill of the Hunt's duration is increased by 5 seconds. 10 TROPHIES: Thrill of the Hunt's bonus movement speed while stealthed is increased by 10%. HEAD OF KHA'ZIX: Rengar gains 30 (+ 30% bonus AD) bonus attack damage.

I really like Rengar's current Bonetooth, but I also miss the old one. Rengar shouldn't just gain damage because he's killing people all over the map. If you kill a Tank Nautilus gaining AD doesn't make sense, but gaining magic resist and armor does. It also fits the theme of Rengar much better. The current bonetooth once you kill 5 people old Rengar returns where he just goes after the ADC all the time. Getting Bonetooth Stacks should feel more rewarding like this. Also giving Rengar bonuses should make it feel like he needs to kill to be strong. 20 kills before was honestly a lot. 5 kills right now is too small. It also makes him weaker in the early game, but much better in the late game. If my idea isn't good enough, the current bonetooth I'm fine with it.

Q Savagery

ACTIVE: Rengar stabs the target enemy dealing physical damage. This ability is a targetted ability similar to Irelia's Irelia E or Kha'Zix's Khazix Q. Range should be the same of Rengar's auto attacks and maybe will reset auto attack timer?

EMPOWERED ACTIVE: Basically the same, just with more damage.

Okay, Rengar's Q is honestly a really big problem ability, I think a lot of people want it to be reverted, but honestly reverting it doesn't seem as smart. The ability itself, if it was reverted, would need significant changes to it's damage. And speaking for a lot of Rengar players, we hate the animation. It does look like he's trying to win the national swimming competition xd. Bring back the old animation, and the beautiful stab sound it had. Currently Rengar's Q does less damage than his auto attacks FeelsBadMan. The AOE Q I agree gave way more counterplay. But I'm pretty sure when Rengar was released to the PBE and Live with his rework he was deleting people in AOE. It just doesn't seem like a good idea. Making it a targetted ability will still lock him out of crit builds. Since currently Infinity Edge item 3031 seems like the only effective crit item.

W Battle Roar I have 3 possible iterations for this ability. Bonus Armor and Magic Resist, Fear, Shield.

Instead of actually posting it like the ability I just want to talk about his W. Currently the Grey Health Mechanic is a lot more healthy however unhealthy as well. Healing from 20% hp all the way to 80% by 2 button presses seems very questionable. The old one was a lot better in this aspect. Another thing is, I really want battle roar to be more of an in combat buff sort of ability. The CC removal is stupid, it's so extremely unhealthy. But I feel as if it's in a good spot right now (not really). Also to gain max ferocity Rengar wastes 1 active. If he leaps in he should at least either fear or regain his armor and mr. Giving him a mini fear however would make him too similar to Warwick just a thought tho. Even giving him a sort of shield would be nice making it a 2 part ability. I just feel as if the current iteration wastes the cooldown. Empowered ability should be the heal tbh, without the grey health or it could remain.

E Bola Strike

ACTIVE: Rengar throws a bola in the target direction, dealing physical damage to the first enemy hit and slowing them for 1.5 seconds with decay.

EMPOWERED ACTIVE: Bola Strike's base physical damage is increased (based on level) and using it roots its target for 1.75 seconds.

Honestly this ability doesn't really need changes but due to my proposed bonetooth changes this could be nice to see. Likewise it's to nerf his early game but buff his later game. The stronger Rengar is, and the more trophies he has, the better his trapping and chasing tools should be.

R Thrill Of The Hunt

ACTIVE: Rengar unleashes a beastial Growl alerting all enemy champions that he has activated his ultimate. Rengar then channels his predatory instincts, becoming invisible after 2 seconds and gaining 35% bonus movement speed while invisible. Through this effect Rengar should fade in and out of invisibility still able to leap, at an interval of 1.5 / 2.5 / 3.5 per ultimate rank. On top of Rengar reveals the closest champion to him as well as any champions within a proximity. Attacking or casting most spells ends Thrill of the Hunt. The closest champion and or lowest champion should gain a visual indicator implying Rengar is nearby.

INVISIBILITY DURATION: 10 / 14.5 / 18

I believe a summoner known as Rampage Rengar described this ult. I was thinking something along the lines of it. However with a bit of altercations. I believe a global sound is the way to go. The sound should be the one when spotting an enemy during thrill of the hunt, That Growl. (If you go to the Rengar wiki, you'll see it there under quotes.) Maybe mixed with the sound of his W activating. I don't like the instacrit, it's counter intuitive when basically only Infinity Edge is his Core Item. Maybe it could stay idk, but assuming you crit for 900 damage and your E + Thunderlords does 1400 damage, Rengar has lost counterplay. I also want to introduce this new vision mechanic to league of legends. Proximity vision should work as follows. Let's assume Rengar is at River Entrance to Red Side Blue Buff. Assuming Champion A is at Red Buff on Blue Side, this new proximity system should reveal Champion B near the Raptor bush, and Champion C at Krugs however it wouldn't reveal Champion D who is at the Blue Side Gate towards Bot Lane. Champions A B and C should gain the same current iteration of the indicator to tell that Rengar is nearby. I believe this adds a lot more counterplay than his current and old ult. It also seems a lot more hunter like.

Final Thoughts Rengar for me is a champion who hunts targets. He's not a bruiser who cares for his team. He wants to hunt the strongest prey, and become stronger from it. I feel as if the changes to the bonetooth reflect that. I'm not so sure about the Q reverting it could be hell. But for the Rengar Player Sake we really hate that animation. His W honestly was me just experimenting. But I really want Riot to make it so he doesn't waste this cooldown and rather gains an in combat steroid FORGOT TO INCLUDE THIS BUT, let's make this ability deal attack damage the magic damage is barely noticeable and if he is gonna use such an important ability it should do his damage type RIP AP RENGAR. His E most fine ability, but due to my earlier stuff I want it slightly changed. I wanna be honest here, I'm not good with numbers balance team that's up to you guys xd.

Let's talk proplay, he's a bruiser with stealth who has massive damage. His damage is unfair he's not healthy. If you're telling me just cuz he has warrior and black cleaver with everything else as tank items and he kills an ADC that it's healthy you're wrong. With these items he shouldn't be able to delete an ADC. Just isn't fair, and isn't smart. I think the proximity vision would be huge for proplay. Old Rengar has his strengths in deleting people and giving you almost global sight of everyone on the map. If we talk regular play, I don't think this as drastic that it would effect normal players and pro players.

Hope you enjoyed my thoughts as a Rengar Main I hope we get our knife cat back into his previous feel and glory.

14 Comments

Auurun2 votes

I disagree with the Q part. The fact that Riot still didn't manage to make a proper melee single-target skillshot just show lack of imagination. I can of think of two ways of creating such ability: something along the lines of Yasuo's Q (small delay, short range), but with animation that simply hides a single-target projectile, or short-ranged, ground-targeted spell that affects only one unit, closest to the center of that ability.

Rengar needs counterplay to his Q simply, because targeted spells make snowballing much easier (get some lucky kill and start destroying because they can't outplay you) and honestly piont'n'clicks are inferior in design and healthiness. If we can't yet get rid of them then at least we should avoid making them the main damage tool.

Warkinge7 votes

Then why are not Talon Q, Kha'zix Q, Kata Q, Akali Q, Leblanc Q, Panth Q, Wukong Q, Kassadin Q skill shots? As reminder all of them have the ability to destroy you in less of 1 second.

"Rengar needs counterplay" is the circlejerk you have in your head.

Auurun1 votes

{quoted}

Then why are not Talon Q, Kha'zix Q, Kata Q, Akali Q, Leblanc Q, Panth Q, Wukong Q, Kassadin Q skill shots? As reminder all of them have the ability to destroy you in less of 1 second.

"Rengar needs counterplay" is the circlejerk you have in your head.

Great. Using one shitty design as an excuse for other shitty design. It's not circlejerk. Skillshots are pretty much confirmed to be superior design by the fact that Riot constantly removes reliability. Katarina's damage mostly comes from her blades, not Q itself, Wukong and kassadin are pretty outdated honestly, Leblanc uses Q mainly for her passive and most of her damage is in her chains, Panth and Akali are Tier 1 candidates for VGU, Talon's rework was IMO pretty disappointing, Kha'zix wasn't even one of the main reworks and remember there's only so much that can be done in such updates. Most of point'n'clicks are probably kept because of stupidity of ADC.

Doozku1 votes

Except melee skulls hots aren't true skillshots because you aren't dodging it unless you are scripting or trying way to hard, in which case the champ can just auto you. Ever seen someone dodge Rengar's Q? Hell, seen someone dodge Yas's Q1/Q2 consistently?

Auurun1 votes

I'm not saying current Q is good, but the fact that riot failed with this ability doesn't mean that old Q was good. It's the matter of just getting it right and giving it proper counterplay. Also I think Yasuo's Q is to fats, so yeah...

Doozku1 votes

I don't that you are ever going to get a melee skillshot "right". Landing a skillshot is always easier at melee range no matter the size. But because it's a skillshot, riot needs to put more power into it. This makes the spell just a stronger version of a targeted version of the same spell. This leads the spell being nerfed constantly because Riot overestimated how reliable the spell was going to be. Just look at Rengar's current Q as an example. Back when it was strong, it was way too powerful because Riot gave it two hits, AOE damage, and a dash to compensate for the "skillshot" and the slower speed. Of course, it was way too strong and since you really can't nerf the AOE or two hits, and nerfing the dash is pointless, they can only really nerf the damage. This leads to the spell being really weak like it is right now, where it deals less damage than an auto attack.

Not to mention the fact that melee skillshots need to be AOE, which is even more of a problem because an assassin should not be killing multiple people.

Auurun1 votes

First off. Landing skillshot is NOT always easier in melee range. If it's a spell like Lux's ult or Yasuo's Q (delayed spell that damage everything in it's path at the same time) the distance between you and your enemy doesn't affect how hard it is to dodge.

Secondly. The only reason skillshots are so powerful is the very existence of reliable damage and CC. They need to be stronger to give any reason to pick non-reliable champions over reliable ones. And still, unless champion is straight up OP he won't be picked to much by pros, which only show how big of a advantage is reliability.

Thirdly. Saying that melee skillshots need to be AOE shows lack of imagination and ignorance. How about this? After small delay Rengar stabs small area in front of him dealing damage to the closest champion to the center of a ability. If the game can check if you tapped or held the button pressed every time you use Warwicks Q, then it can also check who's the closest person to the ability's center. And then there's definitely more ways of handling this problem. For example Fiora's W feels pretty melee even tho it's projectile, the only thing needed would be reducing size and delay.

FeAR THe Reηg02 votes

Realy nice ideas for rework! I think his q could be an auto attack again. Or something that wouldnt give the abillity to Rengar to 1shot in 0.01 but also keep him as an assasin( like 2 auto attacks together or some extra attack speed ) This would revert the bush mechanic he could do with the old q and giving him a smoother kit. I thing the idea of Growling when he activate his ultimate is realy nice but this shouldnt be globally but in an area about 1000/1500/2000. This would give him counterplay but also putting him in risk to waste his ultimate if he actiavates it too far away from his prey. His ultimate should start invisibillity after 1/3 seconts accordingly to if he takes dmg or not or if he uses his abillities or not. Also his ultimate could give him a sign about all enemy champions in an area but not reveals them( like warwick w and passive or rek'sai when she is underground ). And last but not least riot should revert all sounds and animations of rengar and his abillities and revert the fact that when he jumped he would end his leap behind or on top of his enemy (this would bring us back the skilled bushes mechanic ) Keep trying to #MakeRengarGreatAgain :DD Rengar Rengar Rengar Rengar

Rengar Rampage2 votes

Thanks for the shout out!

I really like your passive proposition for scaling the Bonetooth Necklace beyond 5 stacks BUT the reason the Bonetooth Necklace was changed in the first place was due to Riot not liking that Rengar could target the same squishy opponents to gain stacks. With a cap of 2, it may work just fine, but I don't know. I like it, but I don't think Riot would like it.

The leap range of his passive growing is a neat idea BUT also something Riot has said they don't want to have. It's for consistency.

Love Q proposition. I think identical to mine.

In my opinion, W needs a full rework. A simple roar and bonus to stats in some regard do not scream assassin to me. As my post explained, I think some sort of movement ability is needed. This will introduce more out-playing potential while being able to be defensively or offensively.

E is fine where it's at, so I agree with you.

For R, I like the idea of having states of visibility because it creates an opportunity for outplaying AND also allows the opponent to have an idea of what's going on. However, I'm of the opinion that Rengars hunting "perks" should alternate as he goes in and out of visibility. Just my opinion.

Best Regards,

Rengar Rampage

The Slow Rush1 votes

I disagree with keeping current Rengar ferocity. Having him gain a stack from jumping and losing the stacks when out of combat forces one optimal sequence of abilities to use whether he is fighting level 3 in the jungle or assassinating an adc( leap - e - q - w). It is very stale and really boring. Old Rengar had different combos for different situations, sometimes you wont have full ferocity or have an odd number that made you think about the abilities you were using to win that fight. And of course i know that having full ferocity was optimal when starting fights but sometimes you cant stack before that baron fight or you see an out of position squishy you need to kill before they correct their mistake.

Having him lose stacks lowers his skill ceiling.

Noctum Flower1 votes

I thought it was weird before too when they released it. But it's a lot more of a smarter decision. Increasing the number of seconds to hold it would be better, however him keeping stacks is what made him lose skill ceiling. I get that you could hold W and wait for the perfectly timed heal. I also get that you could E out of stealth, but hell that's not healthy and that's not what the community wants.

EDIT: Also that's why I believe changing his W to a more stat focused or different sort of buff would be better, cuz yeah, Rengar does just pump out all his cooldowns to gain max ferocity. And then gains the in combat action to do something. Sure we miss the old system but you have to think about other people playing against Rengar.

Doozku1 votes

Some nice ideas, but I don't agree with everything. Leap changes aren't gonna happen because Riot likes dash ranges being consistent. The only dash that changes with level is Zac's E, which is so long range the person who plays against him likely wouldn't notice the change because they can't see where Zac is jumping from regardless.

Bonetooth is interesting but personally I feel like it's fine as is. Change isn't really needed here because changing bonetooth doesn't solve anything, it's just an unnecessary change IMO.

Q change is actually pretty smart. I was against it at first because they could just make it an auto-attack that can't crit, but by making it targetted he can't Q mid leap.

Personally I disagree with removing the cc cleanse. If you want Rengar to be an assassin, he should have an escape. Without an escape, he's essentially a bursty diver and that isn't healthy for the game. His cc cleanse gave him an escape, albeit a mediocre one. It does work fairly well, however, but I feel like the spell could be better. What if instead of a cc cleanse, it would be a cc immunity for 1.5 seconds but no cleanse. Rengar players would have to time their cc cleanse to block spells and their reward for timing it properly is a longer time of cc immunity than on live.

I don't quite understand how your R proposition works. Does Rengar stealth but temporarily reveal himself every couple of seconds?

Noctum Flower1 votes

Yeah I think keeping the leap is what'll stay. Bonetooth could change but then again a lot of people are fine with the current bonetooth. I just thought forcing Rengar to have even more objective focused stuff would be healthier. If he did get all stacks of his bonetooth and is really far ahead, maybe this could work. But leaving the current bonetooth is okay too. Q change should feel better IMO, but even if he could still use it in the air idk if Riot would like that. W change, idk man that was really experimental too. I think the cc cleanse could be fine, but if it stays i want more of his damage put into the W. It doesn't do a lot of damage, but removing some damage to his E or Q and adding it to the W would be nice. Basically, he should stealth but reveal himself every now and then to give away his position. When I think about it now I don't really like the change as much anymore, but it's an interesting concept.

Doozku1 votes

W change, idk man that was really experimental too. I think the cc cleanse could be fine, but if it stays i want more of his damage put into the W. It doesn't do a lot of damage, but removing some damage to his E or Q and adding it to the W would be nice.

I disagree. His W is mainly a utility spell so having it do damage too is a bit much. Not to mention that the AOE is fairly big on the spell so putting more damage on it rather than the skillshot E or the one-target only Q. Not to mention it thematically doesn't make sense. His W is like a war cry, so having it physically hurt enemies doesn't really make much sense. TBH, this is one of the spells that I'd like to be removed and replaced if they want to rework him further. If they want to make him an assassin, give him some type of mobility or escape, maybe even some kind of stealth for example although I don't think that giving him stealth on his W is the way to go. If they want to make him a Bruiser, they should just do a full rework of his kit.

Idk about your ult change. I just don't feel like its right. Rengar players could probably time the stealth reveal in a way where it doesn't matter, or if Rengar is already in position to kill you, the reveal really doesn't help you in that situation. How about giving Rengar some kind of stalking mechanic, where he has to specifically choose his marked target, and he has to wait for a certain amount of time in his ult before, for example, he gets his ferocity stacks so that he could jump on his target? Of course, his ferocity system would have to be changed to fit this ultimate change, but it would help with Rengar just instajumping on you and bursting you since he has to wait for his ultimate before he can leap.

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