What's the point of Kha'Zix when Rengar is purely better in every way?

Freezie Birdie·Dec 28, 2015·12 votes·1,694 views

Rengar has been in a strong (but balanced) state for a while now, and Kha is just...worse than him in every way, and hasn't been relevant since S3.

When Kha's only real "strength" is that MAYBE his jump will reset if you don't melt from diving the backline (because rarely will your full rotation kill their squishy, and even less likely when their carry doesn't play like an idiot and get isolated damage), then what's the point?

HALP THE BUG. There should be zero characters that are just strictly worse than another in the same role.

28 Comments

Rinky DinkyDec 28, 20157 votes

lol you said rengar is balanced that is not the hivemind directive of the boards atm thus you shall be downvoted and crucified in the name of reddit knows balance gg wp have a nice day [slayer-jinx-wink] [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Maximum MordeDec 28, 20155 votes

Khazix is for people who hate furries and don't mind being subpar.

The Bíg TicketDec 28, 20154 votes

Different champions...Kha can kill multiple champs and is much more forgiving than Ranger. He fits in almost any comp and while he certainly can't insta delete people like Ranger he brings alot more utility and is not totally reliant on his ult to make plays.

Kha Zix is not even bad right now, I don't get what you people are at.

YumaS2AstralDec 28, 201511 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QZUyyUht,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-28T12:46:16.369+0000)

Different champions...Kha can kill multiple champs and is much more forgiving than Ranger. He fits in almost any comp and while he certainly can't insta delete people like Ranger he brings alot more utility and is not totally reliant on his ult to make plays.

Kha Zix is not even bad right now, I don't get what you people are at.

I think the problem with Kha'Zix is that he is better in so many ways than Rengar, except one, which is doing what an assassin is supposed to do: burst down squishies. Since the latter is what people generally want on an assassin, people prefer Rengar because he can do what an assassin should do better than Kha'Zix. Kha has other qualities over Rengar but that is not enough to make him an attractive option.

A Miss FortuneDec 28, 20151 votes

Doesn't Rengar have better CC too?

TroiannDec 28, 20151 votes

No. Rengar has a single target snare (if empowered, and you're sacrificing a lot of damage to use it), kha zix's is in a minor AOE and when evolved is an excellent poke and disengage tool.

Freezie BirdieDec 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No. Rengar has a single target snare (if empowered, and you're sacrificing a lot of damage to use it), kha zix's is in a minor AOE and when evolved is an excellent poke and disengage tool.

However, evolving that really gimps you late game...it's extremely underwhelming for a slight edge early game.

A Miss FortuneDec 28, 20154 votes

I'd much prefer Rengar's single target 2 second snare on a single target over Kha'zix's 20% slow on multiple.

TroiannDec 28, 20151 votes

It's a 50% slow on multiple people and is much easier to land. Rengar's snare requires his ult to land consistently and also requires five stacks. If he uses his five stack E his burst is extremely mediocre.

Chaotic ReksDec 29, 20151 votes

because his stacks are SOOO difficult to get back kappa

TroiannDec 29, 20151 votes

Have you tried getting stacks as rengar when building pure damage when only one of your abilities can stack it from range and has an 8 second cooldown?

Have you ever played rengar?

Chaotic ReksDec 29, 20151 votes

If you're building damage on Rengo, you're more than likely picking up item 3142 and item 3078 which give 20% cdr. Not to mention from Runes you are getting another 5%, and 8 seconds isn't even that long.

TroiannDec 29, 20151 votes

8 seconds.

In 8 seconds your entire team gets shredded because you can't do anything.

And all of that to use your snare. Which you can only land once consistently with your ult in a fight.

Freezie BirdieDec 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think the problem with Kha'Zix is that he is better in so many ways than Rengar, except one, which is doing what an assassin is supposed to do: burst down squishies. Since the latter is what people generally want on an assassin, people prefer Rengar because he can do what an assassin should do better than Kha'Zix. Kha has other qualities over Rengar but that is not enough to make him an attractive option.

I think most of this is right aside from the fact that he is better in many ways. Honestly, isolate is just a rough mechanic, because he really needs the long jump to reach potentially isolated targets, but he doesn't get that until level 11, which by then, the squishies are no longer alone and easy pickings, which heavily gimps his character.

What they really need to do is make him even more "high risk, high reward" to differentiate him...maybe make his other moves do stuff based on isolation to emphasize positioning and doing his actual assassin role properly (which still probably wont fix the problem, but it's an idea). I'm not saying it would be easy to do, but something needs to be done, because irrelevant utility is still irrelevant.

Chaotic ReksDec 29, 20151 votes

doesn't get that until level 11

you're playing him wrong. While Kha does need something, people think he's weak because they are evolving Q first when the wings give him so much more (leap range, damage, resets)

Rinky DinkyDec 28, 20151 votes

More utility?

lol?

YumaS2AstralDec 28, 20153 votes

Kha'Zix has better utility and isn't useless after he kills someone. His cooldowns are low enough to allow him to try for another kill if he is sucessful.

Maximum MordeDec 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Kha'Zix has better utility and isn't useless after he kills someone. His cooldowns are low enough to allow him to try for another kill if he is sucessful.

Kha'Zix does not have better utility. They both have a heal, they both have a slow, they both have invisibility, they both have a gapcloser but Rengar has a root which is much more deadly and useful for his team than a slow.
You are right that Khazix is generally more useful after getting a kill than the knife cat but that only applies to large teamfights. In small 2v2 and 3v3 engagements, I'd rather be Rengar. He can still fight as long as his ambush took out the right target.

Freezie BirdieDec 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Kha'Zix has better utility and isn't useless after he kills someone. His cooldowns are low enough to allow him to try for another kill_** if he is sucessful.**_

I somewhat agree with you...but the emphasized part is the problem. That IF is a HUUUUGE one at the moment. I've played him A LOT, and it's few and far between when I can actually kill my desired target (and consequently I die instead), which defeats the whole purpose of an assassin. I wouldn't mind changing his kit to make him play differently or something, but as is, he is not fulfilling his job. A good player can still do okay with him, but then a good player could just do better with Rengar.

Chaotic ReksDec 29, 20152 votes

Kha's only utility are 2 shitty slows. Meanwhile rengar gets massive true vision and and strong snare

Power CosmicDec 28, 20151 votes

Kha doesn't reach his full potency until level 11 (evolve e and q). While most every other champ becomes there full selves at lvl 6. On top of that, Rengar has a better passive, ult, and slow. Kha has no utility he is meant to do one thing which is pick people off, whether in team fights or elsewhere. So before level 11, teams can make it very tough for him to get his kills and gold. Therefore when he reaches 11, a lot of times the game has already passed him by.

In terms of utility like covering lanes or split pushing, if you know where he is, you know where not to be alone; or where to be grouped. He can be good with objectives, but that is figuring his team can act independent of him (as all teams will have to do with kha on it) and he has some gold.

qetzelDec 28, 20151 votes

Rengar isn't very good with clean up and relies quite heavily on speedboosts. There is reason to pick Kha over Rengar, he is just weaker at the moment.

Hayaishi2Dec 28, 20151 votes

Rengar isn't balanced at the moment and Kha Zix isn't worse than him everything else. Fucking Kha Zix circlejerk pretending Kha Zix doesn't become pick/ban everytime he is strong.

TroiannDec 28, 20151 votes

Thing with Kha is his kit is much more versatile. He used to be ridiculously broken, even after they nerfed all his broken aspects he was still a major pick at S4 worlds until they finally gutted him by making him almost unable to jungle in season 5.

Freezie BirdieDec 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Thing with Kha is his kit is much more versatile. He used to be ridiculously broken, even after they nerfed all his broken aspects he was still a major pick at S4 worlds until they finally gutted him by making him almost unable to jungle in season 5.

Eh, I think his versatility has been gimped into the ground as well. There is no "choice" for leveling anything, there is almost strictly a best option. Kitty is also not struggling utility wise, so Kha being marginally more versatile doesn't make up for everything else, I'd say.

SouL1essDec 28, 20151 votes

Multi-rotation assassins are always more of a risk to buff than Single-rotation assassins.

E.g. The Fizz rework made him more of a Single-rotation assassin than a multi-rotation assassin and made him easier to balance, technically.

E.g. Akali and Kha'zix share the same assassin prototype, and both were very potent when their numbers were strong, but weak when their numbers were subpar.

And Kha'zix isn't really comparable to Rengar in kit. It's like saying what is the point of Lissandra when Lux is purely better in every way.

Kha'zix does need some help but don't compare him to Rengar because it's a bad analogy.

lordodane1Dec 28, 20152 votes

They compare them becuase they are rivals with mostly the same skills. eg. Heal, Stealth, Gap closer and a cc tho rengar has two. Also they get buffs from killing each other so if one is stronger thats just not fair.

SouL1essJan 3, 20161 votes

They compare them becuase they are rivals with mostly the same skills.

Which is pretty dumb because they work completely differently.

Rengar is a completely different champion when he doesn't have ult, which makes him more similar to Zed and Talon. Kha'zix's ult is not the focal point of his kit and his offensive power is all in his basic abilities.