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If these PBE shaco changes go through as they are, carry builds on shaco will be completely dead.

Extreme Person·3/26/2017, 8:54:43 PM·15 votes·1,643 views

BEFORE YOU DOWNVOTE ME AND TELL ME HOW BRUISER SHACO IS OP PLEASE READ THE POST. I AM ADDRESSING THE FACT THAT SHACO NEEDS NERFS BUT THESE NERFS DO NOT ADDRESS THE PROBLEMATIC ASPECTS OF SHACO WHILE FORCING PEOPLE TO BUILD THE OP BUILD

As a little background, I'm Extreme Person, a high elo AP shaco main on NA, I've peaked 280 LP this season and 230 LP last season and I'm here to make my case against these current nerfs. First and foremost, I would like to say that I AGREE that shaco needs to be nerfed in some way, but nerfs need to be targeted at the current meta build (titanic trinity bruiser) rather than at carry builds, which are actually quite balanced. The current changes on PBE are as follows:

Backstab (passive) crit changed from 120-145% (based on level) to 130% at all levels. added 40% ap ratio on backstab procs Q (Deceive) cooldown changed from 14 at all ranks to 16/15/14/13/12 Bonus damage REMOVED

Essentially, the crit change on backstab and cd change on deceive are decent steps in the right direction, reducing shaco's consistent dps at later levels and making early ganks/invades higher risk, but the damage changes are inconceivable. To put this into perspective, a shaco with gunblade and runic echoes has 130 ad and roughly 200 AP. A backstab Q would do [80+130+(200/2)]1.32 = 409.2 damage. The same ability no backstab would deal 310 damage. With the changes, a hit from the front deals 130 damage and from the back deals 1.3130+.4*200, or 249 damage, a 160.2 damage nerf on a champion with 1 item and a jungle item. An additional backstab would deal 80 additional damage compared to before, meaning it would take 2 additional auto attack backstabs just to break even. Good luck trying to get 2 additional hits on someone without getting blown up, unless of course, you keep building an obnoxious bruiser build. Mind you, since backstabs new scaling is .4 and old backstabbed Q ratio is 0.65, the damage nerf is even higher the more AP you build, whereas bruiser build only takes an 80 damage hit (96-116 with BS with full AD hit by the same amount).

In addition, the nerf to later levels of backstab hits AP and lethality even harder. 161 AD 450 AP level 18 shaco q deals 675.7 damage currently, next patch that would go down to 389.3, a difference of 286.4 damage. compare this to a 230 AD shaco (roughly titanic tri + lv 18) q backstab going from 449.5 to 299, a difference of 150.5 damage, which could easily be gained back by replacing titanic with gunblade and still going mostly tank. The reason people go bruiser shaco over lethality is not only because his base damages are fairly high, but also because he has 0 bonus AD scalings. Theres no reason whatsoever to build high attack damage items at all, especially compared to old shaco whose Q had a 3.5 AD ratio with IE (and no base damage) and an e that had a 1:1 bonus AD ratio (with solid base dmg but no execute damage).

Here are some better solutions to nerfing bruiser shaco that don't completely annihilate any carry builds:

-Nerf backstab base but add bonus AD ratio to compensate. -Make backstab unaffected by CDR -Remove backstab base damage, add a bonus AD ratio and increase the AP ratio. -Reduce box fear length. -Nerf box health significantly, add ad/ap ratios to box health. -Increase shiv base damage, remove total AD scaling and add bonus AD scaling, adjust AP scaling and execute damage. Potentially consider removing te execute or nerfing and making the execute scale. -Significantly increase the damage clone takes from epic monsters to it costs shaco HP to do super early drags/rift herald/cant solo baron at all. -Nerf clone's damage to champions, add bonus AD ratio. -revert the rework because shaco was fine for 5 years and it's never too late to go back. Each of these methods would be much less impactful on carry builds while taking down the build that is causing the most frustration and imbalance. Again, I'm fine with seeing nerfs to shaco I just don't want those nerfs to shoehorn me into being tank ekko. Any discussion is welcome as well.

16 Comments

ChickenWrap3/26/2017, 8:57:13 PM4 votes

That's what Riot wants. They want a scaling assassin with a bad early game and good mid/late game that has to build full bruiser in order to even have a hope of keeping up with anyone else in the game because his damage is so paltry.

The fact that Bruiser Shaco took off as the build to use in the first place is, in itself, complete bullshit. It shouldn't even be a thought at being the best, because that's not who Shaco is.

I'm sure non-Shaco players are overjoyed though. What they don't understand is that Shaco players will just move on to Kha'Zix or Rengar and instagib them all game long instead.

Moosh3/26/2017, 9:07:37 PM3 votes

Wait where did you see that they removed bonus dmg on q?

dunder kill3/26/2017, 10:06:56 PM3 votes

Or maybe they should do something about the 4.5 seconds of invisibility that people despise. shaco flew under the radar more or less until the stealth changes. Invisibility is just horrible mechanic to begin with

Bisaknosp3/26/2017, 10:08:18 PM3 votes

at this point idc about the op junglers getting 'nerfed too hard' just want them gutted its been long enough

Papa Andrei3/26/2017, 10:17:54 PM1 votes

You should know by know, Riot has a record of never nerfing the right thing, always nerfing everything else but the issue, then nerfing the issue, and leaving the.

WarHero543/27/2017, 4:04:25 AM1 votes

If ap build, after this patch, wants to survive against tanky builds they should at least let boxs proc masteries and item effects like Liandry's and Morellonomicon or else now only E and shaco clone explosion proc those.

Psi213/27/2017, 5:29:11 AM1 votes

Why are you trying to make him AD again. He is much more fun as AP. And the players talking up gunblade and IE on him don't get it. There are better AP builds.

TheKosam4/11/2017, 10:51:50 PM1 votes

Welp RIP Shaco 7.7 I hope they bring him back. For now I'm sticking to Lee sin and Graves. It's just not fair that the champ I used to main is gutted so badly this patch. Shaco is all about sneakin and killin. Not bruisin and cruisin. Tbh the bruiser build requires the particular items, and without them and his shit base damage, he cannot kill anyone early unless they're the ham-sandwich players who dunno how to ward and ffs BE CAREFUL in the early game, and those players in particular are the reason for this nerf. Unfair. Rito. U fucked up. thanks for ruining my favourite champ.