Redefining Hail of Blades

Inst1nct··2 votes·2,555 views

Hail of Blades is currently a niche keystone, which on the surface is fine (ex: Glacial Augment Tahm Kench, Predator Annie, Unsealed Spellbook bot lanes) however its use cases leave something to be desired. Here's some issues and random suggestions.

  1. Direct Competition from Electrocute: As a Damage focused Keystone Electrocute seems to perform better particularly when abilities are in the rotation, possibly leading to FOMO.
  2. Target Champion Pool: HoB doesn't have well defined users like Electrocute for spell-based assassins. AS is part of so many kits with different uses. A few examples: Xin Zhao to get faster knockups, ADCs to front load damage, or Assassins as an electrocute replacement.
  3. Less Visual Feedback: The VFX for HoB shows when its available, this runs contrary to the design philosophy of giving feedback on use and also places the graphic on the user rather on the target (Then again so does Lethal Tempo which is Yellow's Direct counterpart to HoB).

Possible changes:

  1. Direct buffs: Helps in every use case, makes a case to sub Electrocute for AD assassins, but still lacks defined identity aside from a sheer stat boost.
  2. Adding Damage/Pen on Hit: Flat or AP/AD scaling Damage on hit increases burst and makes it attractive to burst oriented assassins or front loaded DPS. Also adds visual feedback by numbers.
  3. Moving the CD from Out-Of-Combat to dealing damage: Depending on the numbers this can favor either assassins or DPS. I'd imagine that this would be best suited for extended fights where multiple rotations would be desireable over a single electrocute proc, thus defining HoBs niche while rewarding opportunistic/patient players.
  4. Adding Utility (My personal favorite): Red hasn't had much in the broadly useable utility since the removal of stormraider's surge, adding in-combat MS/slow-resist could provide meaningful ingame useage which thematically separates HoB from Electrocute. This comes at the risk of abuse cases where Ghostblade/HoB assassins become too much for even the most elusive of targets to escape, and the worry that Phase Rush and HoB would be too similar even though they should have different use cases (Xin Zhao being a possible exception).

Shout out to Riot Rovient for carrying/clutching on Kayn and pointing out this issue to me also please don't take this as a "Rito Pls I know how to do your job better than you" post.

11 Comments

veigarbage can2 votes

The only champ I find myself using HOB on is RekSai because of her E's effect, so you Q with Hail of Blades to get 100% fury and then E.

Other than that, yes, it's a p useless keystone.

Inst1nct2 votes

Not gonna lie totally forgot about her Empowered E doing true damage, seems like a decent alternative to PtA/Electrocute for low armor comps not sure how it stacks up to conqueror for high armor but that's not her role.

Reaper Soraka1 votes

Let's make Hail of Blades proc for 5 autos and see what happens. Let's be honest, we're just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks anyways.

It'll be much more useful on multi-hit champions like Vayne, but I don't know if the additional passive proc from her can really beat electrocute. It'll be interesting.

Inst1nct1 votes

I thought about that but 5 autos is longer than you'd realistically want to hit on single targets for assassins, while you might see overall bonuses to teamfights longer single target TTK would bias it toward ADC or Melee DPS types who have fewer restrictions on target selection and are in a good place keystone wise. Also there's the thematic issue of Domination vs Precision where Domination is supposed to be geared toward burst damage.

La Bello1 votes

Possible changes: 2) Adding Damage

[sg-shisa] HAVE WE LEARNED NOTHING?

Inst1nct1 votes

Patch 8.20: Armor and Magic resist stacking have slowed down team fights too much. Armor and Magic resist can now be broken by doing a set amount of Physical or Magic Damage respectively.

veigarbage can1 votes

{quoted}

[sg-shisa] HAVE WE LEARNED NOTHING?

For a rune as useless as HoB, it kind of makes sense. I will say though, there are other ways to buff it, but it's mostly just a suggestion.

Serevas1 votes

I like the way it interacts with Jhin. Someone mentioned Rek'sai, who I can see value in. I could see its usefulness to pop a faster knockup from Xin. Faster stack on stacking proc abilities. Yasuo might enjoy it as it'll provide him a pretty hardcore burst window, given his Q CD drops based on attack speed.

I think where I see the most benefit would be Mordekaiser. Getting off the 3 Q hits super fast would be fantastic.

The unfortunate thing is I feel like most of these champions benefit from a different keystone further. PTA/Conqueror on Xin, Yasuo, Rek'sai being a prime example of that.

I think it's doomed to be pretty much the same deal as Predator, Dark Harvest, and all 3 of the inspiration keystones. Unless they get reworked, they'll only have a slight niche situation where they're a little bit valuable, but not applicable to most champions in the game.

Inst1nct1 votes

I agree with Jhin's passive interacting favorably with it though I haven't run the numbers or tried it much myself. Not entirely sure how it'd affect Yasuo but it would be a decent shift in laning (then again as a keystone maybe it should). Forgot about Mordekaiser's "new" Q will try it out, sounds possibly broken but I'm not sure what matchups you'd be able to use it on, though I guess it could be decent as a post-lane phase/early team fight keystone.

About that last point though I'm not sure I agree. Predator has outstanding use cases particularly out of the jungle. Kleptomancy has two abuse cases (Ezreal, Illaoi) and some decent use cases (Gangplank, Fiora). Glacial Augment only has one semi-consistent user on Tahm Kench, but in my opinion the Inspiration tree has the best secondary runes in the current state of the game. Dark Harvest, yeah you got me on that one. Fun on ARAM though.

Niche keystones are fine, but they should at least feel good to pick, Jhin excluded.

Serevas1 votes

I'm not arguing secondary runes at all. I think inspirations secondary runes are fantastic in a lot of cases. I'm talking about keystones.

Additionally I see very few junglers take Predator. Typically Skarner, Olaf, and Hecarim. Perhaps after the Electrocute nerf, Predator might be the way to go on assassins, but as a whole, it's not used on that many champions.

Meep Man1 votes

Jhin : Yes please.

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