The Annie Rework for Dummies

djPREGNANT··5 votes·984 views

Why is this boring champ still so boring when shes so popular? Annie I know why, don't answer, its because she's OP as hecky and she's reliable.

But what if she was all those things with an actual balanced kit? This has probably been suggested but maybe not. how about this:

before anything, max attack range down to 550.

1. Passive Annie's passive?? nah, make her work for it like a rengoRengar as in, she has to** land** **damage dealing ** spells to get a stack for stun. sheesh. change the stun effect too, looks like she ran into a cobweb. she's the dark child, give her a glowing sigil over her head or a magic circle under her feet, glowing too, clarity n stuff. i like the laugh tho. her voice is for another section of the board though.

2. Q~~ this should be a skill shot for sure~~, but in skillshot form, give it a fatter hitbox _and a catch. _(the reason i say skillshot form is because of her e, so keep reading.)

3. W the cone is cool, but it could work better. not gonna comment on how riot can do better with fire FX cause i just did BUT as for balance, what if you increase the area of the cone, and make it a sweep like riven's new slow-mo ult.Riven the speed can vary, but now its something at least possible to dodge.

4. E The buff it gives tibbers could work but its really not making anything happen that stands out. instead, what if you rename the thing like dark contract, idk something lore related, and make it work like this: annie gets this omnious ring around her that gives her a shield, time of shield can vary, and if she gets damaged with it up, she gets a movement speed attack range buff and a mark on champs that damage her that can be consumed with the next spell/auto she or allies cast on them for extra damage. the shield aura stays up for full duration so even after its popped anyone attacking her in the span will get the mark. this will also passively make her Q auto lock, which would be funny, because or smart cast fiends that can't skillshot. but hey, git gud.

5. R no root while casting, she visibly throws up tibbers, a shadow appears for like, .75 sec, where tibbers will land. whille tibbers is out and shield (E) is active, allies near tibbers generate a small shield, i mean, tibbers is for protection right? if no shield, then mr and armor. within an area.

EDIT: just pointing out that her ratios would be the same, its not like the damage is going away.

And that's it!

I don't post often on the boards, if you actually see this, let me know what you think. I'm sure theres reasons why this wont work, but I'd definitely like to hear them.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------EDIT---------------------------------------------------------------

Here's Some more ideas (not neccassarily the for the preposed rework above) I'm shooting off rapid fire, comment your thoughts and I'll add to the list any cool idea you guys have:

  1. Tibbers gets buffed/duration increeased if annie casts spells on him
  2. I think tibbers could get some increased AI so he's more proactive about objectives, peeling, and soaking damage.
  3. splash damage on q
  4. w slows targets to help land a delayed tibbers.

16 Comments

Abyssphere2 votes

A lot of the changes have potential to be good but you have to give something back. This rework as is makes her harder to play and makes it so that your reward for playing her well is still less than your reward for playing her well on live. It reminds me of the Veigar and Zilean reworks and even if Annie can be a frustration to play against, I don't want to see her at a 39% winrate.

djPREGNANT1 votes

You bring up some good points. I'm looking at some of the critcism and I'm noticing people don't like nerfs on annie. It's not she even needs a buff imo, but you're correct,_ there should be more reward to playing her in the rework than the satisfaction of mastering the mechanics._ Maybe the range stays the same, not sure how i feel about the skillshot too. I'll edit in some more bonuses and remove some nerfy stuff.

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

You bring up some good points. I'm looking at some of the critcism and I'm noticing people don't like nerfs on annie. It's not she even needs a buff imo, but you're correct,_ there should be more reward to playing her in the rework than the satisfaction of mastering the mechanics._ Maybe the range stays the same, not sure how i feel about the skillshot too. I'll edit in some more bonuses and remove some nerfy stuff.

It's not so much that Annie shouldn't get nerfs but rather... you need to even stuff out. Annie's strong right now but she's not completely outrageous, the main problem with her is not that she's too powerful but that she feels kinda crap to play against. You shouldn't rework her with the express intent of dumpstering her, you should rework her with the intent of removing the strengths that really aren't fair and giving her fairer ones in exchange. The nerfs in this rework really aren't unfair or anything, I think they make sense and could be good. It's just that a bunch of flat nerfs don't count as a rework and if Riot were to implement this... there'd be a lot of angry people asking them why Annie is now unplayable. She's a popular champ, there'd be outrage on a "Lee Sin rework" level if this was put on the PBE and it'd be justified.

As I said in another post in this thread, Annie doesn't actually have many strengths. She's good because she's almost impossible to respond to and because she has massive damage. Stunning and bursting people immediately is... all that she's able to do. You've made it so that there's time to respond to her and that nerfs her assassinations, her team fight initiation, her peel (for herself or her team), her poke (because Q can no longer be used in the middle of a minion wave) and the list goes on. But she hasn't been given anything in exchange.

What reason is there for an Annie player to be excited about this rework? What reason is there to prefer post-rework Annie to pre-rework? Is there a reason to use her at all? She's lacking in strong utility, she's immensely lacking in range and there are people who do massive AOE burst while also offering a lot more. Right now she makes up for what she lacks by being extremely reliable and having an immense team fight initiation but those strengths wouldn't exist if this rework went through, leaving her... pretty much worthless. An AOE shield on Tibbers isn't enough and frankly doesn't feel massively fitting for someone who is at the end of the day a burst mage.

tl;dr the nerfs are great but she needs well-thought-out buffs too. This rework does a lot to make her less frustrating to play against and that's great but ... the lack of compensation means it also completely guts her. In particular she can no longer support because her stun just can't be relied on anymore, and her Q becoming a line skillshot means poking in mid lane is infinitely more difficult for her which is a huge problem for someone as short ranged as her. I can't think of a single role she'd be capable of doing well in.

djPREGNANT2 votes

This was so well thought out, are you sure you're actually from league community? This is great advice, I made this thread as soon as ideas came into my head, but this makes me want to brainstorm on the buffs she could potentially have. I'm not riot or anything though, but I would be interested in seeing some visual and kit tweaks, which I think Riot could pull off in a fairer way if they ever decided to rework her. Basically, I'm [[TEMPORARILY]] spent on Ideas beyond whats already posted, but your critique definitely inspired me to look this in a better angle. so Thank you.

Vistha Kai2 votes

Should she really get anything in return?

There is little-to-nothing (inb4: "Stay outside her range or go AFK, hurr durr") an enemy can do. It's all up to Annie player to fail.

Abyssphere1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PiY6rvyT,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-06-25T20:30:55.506+0000)

Should she really get anything in return?

There is little-to-nothing (inb4: "Stay outside her range or go AFK, hurr durr") an enemy can do. It's all up to Annie player to fail.

I'm not sure what your point is with the second sentence. Yes Annie has lacking counterplay right now but the point of this rework is to make it so that Annie is harder to play and easier to respond to - Q is no longer targeted, W takes longer to reach full range, Tibbers is delayed. So in a world where this rework happens you cannot say "Keep Annie weak there's no counterplay to her".

Annie is strong right now simply because her mechanics are so difficult to counter - about 90% of her power budget is locked into instant burst and instant CC. Of course she should get something in return for those two things being removed, how could it possibly be balanced to not do so? You don't rework a champion by removing their core strengths and then... leaving it at that.

djPREGNANT1 votes

currently the potential perks are:

  1. shield on E
  2. range/movespeed buff (E)
  3. consumable mark similar to kat (E)
  4. 2nd tier tower shield-like bubble for allies from tibbers summon
  5. increased W size
  6. a slow on W (Edited in)
  7. a splash on Q (Edited in)
  8. ability to use Q as skillshot useful for bush checks etc.
  9. other tibbers perks listed below edit line^

and the cons are:

  1. no permanent autolock Q
  2. slower w animation
  3. no thornmail proc on e
  4. no mr/armor on e
  5. no E spam for stun proc
  6. telegraphed tibbers landing spot
  7. potentially less stun opurtunities
Vistha Kai1 votes

Yes Annie has lacking counterplay right now

So a champion is lacking counterplay. We want to remove that. Let's compensate for it!

You don't rework a champion by removing their core strengths and then... leaving it at that.

You'd be surprised.

Abyssphere1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PiY6rvyT,comment-id=0002000100000001,timestamp=2015-06-25T23:10:45.349+0000)

So a champion is lacking counterplay. We want to remove that. Let's compensate for it!

You'd be surprised.

Well, you can rework a champ by just removing their strengths and that's it, but it leads to a very angry community :P

Vistha Kai1 votes

Because everybody loves when cancer festers.

BluePolarizer1 votes

yes there is. You are just not mechanically good enough to do it.

You can barrier or exhaust while stunned. If Annie doesn't kill you at lvl. 6 she is at a huge disadvantage because she falls off if she doesn't get fed.

You can flash/dash away from Tibbers as there is a split second delay where Annie raises her hands. I've dodged Annie ults as Master Yi with Alpha Strike.

If she has to flash initiate, you can flash/dash away from her flash, keeping your distance and now she can't do anything without walking up to you and eating huge poke.

If you are playing a melee AD, you can simply leave lane, get fed from roams and then buy a Hexdrinker. Now Annie can't kill you solo until she has 200+ AP, which costs way more than a Hexdrinker.

Its just like how in the LCS, Thresh destroys Leona but in low elo, Leona stomps everyone: you can cancel Leona E with Thresh E and thus Leona is basically useless, but in low elo, nobody is mechanically good enough to do it.

Lyrxen1 votes

All of these sound like a nerf, so I'm guessing you don't like her burst?

djPREGNANT2 votes

If she had this kit I'm pretty sure she would still be able to burst people fairly easily, a good example is brand Brand , all his moves have set up yet are still quick and bursty if used correctly.

Erockandroll1 votes

Tibber stun is fine considering it's her Ultimate Ability. The AP might be over tuned, but the engage is Fine.

djPREGNANT1 votes

I agree, tibbers would still stun, the stacks for stun would change however. with late game stun duration plus the combos she has, she can get a whole team to half health in an instant, I just think there should be more counter play than just "stay out of range" because even then, summoner 4 . a short telegraph isn't unreasonable in my opnion.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Whenever it's an ultimate or not, isn't an argument.

Imagine if Rito made a champion dealing 10000 instant damage across the map. It's an ultimate, so it's fine.

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