Questioning Spellthief, Frostfang

Sinneli·Aug 12, 2015·4 votes·1,171 views

So. There has been this question in my mind lately. From my experience on this item, this thing helps rake up tons of gold for the support doing nothing more than simply poking the enemy with either autos or spells. On champions with DoT, 'support' Brand can rake up money by simply hitting one spell and watching the enemy burn a little while gaining 15~30 gold whenever the charges are full. But this leads me to question some other supports, and other champions who are not able to do this.

Lulu, for instance, has Pix with her passive, firing small bolts that can be blocked by enemy units. Why does this not trigger the item?

Also, apparently, Teemo's E don't proc Spellthief as well.

I found that a little weird. Is there a reason for those?

11 Comments

AmazingBeaverAug 12, 20151 votes

Not always you can get the most of item 3303 since there are lanes that u just cant poke , unless you want to lose big chunks of HP , sometimes item 3301 is better choice .

3TWarriorAug 12, 20151 votes

the big issue is that spellthief lines have the highest "potential" gold and add damage to your attacks, but it is hard to utilize that potential except with point and click mechanics and the stats it contributes are worthless by mid game

(i've actually taken a liking to it on adc's and etc instead of doran's blade because the item is relatively ineffecient. Spellthief on the other hand (since it's worthless to upgrade for 500 gold) gives roughly the same amount of damage, mana regen(a bonus), and 5 gold for each time you hit an enemy (even more if you go utility enhancements), meaning a significant gold advantage at only the cost of early game minor sustain/health, which is typically mitigated by the support line of enhancements

having an extra hundred gold + what you gather really helps until you hit very late game, for instance, tristana/caitlynn can hit from maximum poke distance, if you could utilize everything at the "highest" possible efficiency, then you generate 15(spell thief) + 18(mastery) + 6 (passive generation of item) = about 39 gold per 30 seconds

although the optimal situation is never possible, you can assume that that will give you that much gold extra per minute if you are able to keep 50% efficiency, or essentially a free kill's worth of gold in the first 10 minutes

comparing potential gold values:

spellthief(basic since it's worthless to upgrade): (if combined with the on hit mastery) about 1.3 gold per second

the other line, the coin, is more reliable and allows for passive collection and healing, provide somewhat decent sustain by mid game(roughly usable endgame) gold (combined with passive for fairness): 1.2 gold per second

then face of the mountain for better heals and decent farming (not overpowered at any stage of the game, nor underpowered) this item is the least gold efficient because it has to upgrade to utilize its maximum gold potential as at targon's brace, it recharges 1 charge per 30 seconds, with both hits a minute, this comes to 32 - 60 gold (based upon cannon minion with a normal minion and of course 2 normal minions), if combined with masteries, it would come to: 1.13 gold per second to 1.6 gold per second

but these are optimal scenarios and unlikely to be achieved

spell thief will grant constant gold early game and some damage and does not require to be upgraded while also being cheap

the coin line will provide constant money so long as you are in range of minion deaths ( a safer bet for most supports)

and the relic shield line will provide decent gold early game while continuing to be fairly stat efficient mid and late, though still better off traded in

OVERALL, THE OPTIMAL GOLD EARNINGS ARE DETERMINED BY PLAYSTYLE AND CHOICES

AmazingBeaverAug 12, 20151 votes

You put item 3303 on ADC ? is this aram because when u kill minion it goes on CD so i cant see it being best option for adc .

3TWarriorAug 12, 20151 votes

and how long does it take you to hit 2 autos and an ability or 1 ability and an auto (caitlynn/etc) or even just one ability depending upon who is picked with a damage over time ability.

3 seconds max and if you kill a minion, the effect goes on cooldown for 12 seconds

the trick is, spend all of y our charges if possible before killing the minion. Also, it might be a non-resetting cooldown because i'm fairly sure i've just waited it out while clearing minions

either way though, free gold is free gold

AmazingBeaverAug 13, 20151 votes

Yeah man its so good all lcs adc's pick it ^^ seen one make item 3092 too

3TWarriorAug 13, 20151 votes

sarcasm aside, it's a potential pick(not frost fang or frost queen, they're pointless for gold farming or stats)...the point is that you save gold and farm faster or have extra for potions to sustain. the sad truth is, about one potion will save you as much health as a doran's blade will

if you have doran's + pickaxe and about 100 AD, that means you still only heal 3 per hit, an amount so negligible that it's literaly 1/50th of what a potion gives you

PsychoneirikAug 12, 20151 votes

I think it is because they don't really count as spells. They also don't proc liandry's or rylai's.

HäßlichAug 12, 20151 votes

It's more of a give and take. Look at Sona or Annie for example,

You can use item 3098 to get paid for harassing and build into a mediocre clicky item ( item 3092 ) , but when teamfights roll around you're going to struggle to make strong plays if you don't have summoner 4 available. However, it does have some desirable damage stats if you are building that way with your support. On the other hand, item 3096 is a more passive gold gain with more sustain in mind, but builds into ( item 3069 ) an item that lets you make plays on a relatively short cooldown. You can quickly close for an ult stun, help your team chase, or disengage. FQC seems a lot more limited by comparison.

AmazingBeaverAug 12, 20151 votes

item 3069 With masteries it has like 30 sec CD WTF , u cna use it to go back in lane and it will be back up after 10 secs spent in lane ,

3TWarriorAug 12, 20151 votes

I think it has to do with that they're not an "active" spell

brand's passive is triggered by a spell hit(or perhaps might be coded to add onto as an additional part of the spell, making it hit as a spell each time the damage ticks)

teemo and lulu are constant auto attack effects

overall, it's probably just bad coding as the text states that "auto attacks and spells against an enemy champion do 10 extra magic damage and grant 5 gold, happening a maximum time of 3 times per 30 seconds"

so, teemo's damage is probably coded as a debuff and lulu's is probably coded as an "addition" to her auto attack damage

as an example of spell damage: malzahar and urgot's E's both do damage over time, essentially dealing "spell damage" but teemo's passive is a debuff (or as with lulu, a set amount of damage added onto his auto attack per second)

ex: attack damage + (the entirety of the damage passive divided by time)

it doesn't make sense though because I believe his ults trigger them as a "spell damage"