~ Bring Ashe back from the Ashes ~

Astral Chained·5/20/2016, 5:57:32 AM·1 votes·1,087 views

So one of the rather traditional Marksmen would be the lovely and wonderful Ashe. Ashe 1. She has an adequate amount of CC in her passive, as well as her ultimate: being a slow and stun respectively 2. She has her bits of poke, and a very simple nature of kiting, which is a helpful maneuver at all stages of skill level and game-play. 3. She has a form of long range vision or scouting if you will in the presence of her hawkshot. 4. A fair boost to her attack speed/dps in the form of her rangers focus.

All traits that contribute to a somewhat adequate Carry. However, with that her own downfalls.

  1. No escape besides her Flash.

  2. No Defensive skills or utility aside from her ult.

  3. No Scaling with Crit items.

  4. No potential for disengages or engages aside from her ult.

  5. Building defensive takes away from her meager possible damage output as it is.

  6. Going full glass cannon makes you more of a glass flare gun by comparison to other carries.

  7. Lowest hp/defensive stats out of EVERY MARKSMAN besides Ezreal. Which is okay because he has his E and literally gets free CDR from Q spamming.

  8. Preseason changes gave just about every Marksman some unique twist and flavor and Ashe got nerfs.

  9. Hasn't been touched since her rework in 5.9, with the exception of her Q's Focus stacks gaining 1 second in duration and the stacks gaining a natural falloff.

  10. In the patch notes of her Q's tweak Scarizard says: "As a 'utility carry' Ashe's Strengths lie in kiting her pursuers rather than consistent damage output of other marksman. Embracing that style, however, can prove detrimental (even when shes doing it right)..."Post.

            - Even when playing the champion correctly in her designated style, it has fatal consequences? That isn't okay.
    
  11. Calling Ashe a 'Utility Carry' is a specific niche only shared with one other Marksman...Markswoman, and that is Sivir. However Sivir has one of the hardest engages of 2016 (her ultimate), Self Peel/Defensive spell (Spell Shield)/ In addition to a natural kiting mechanic (Her Passive). She is immediately outclassed by the only other utility carry in the game except maybe Urgot. And hell, his ult is a harder form of Engage and an AOE Fear. Urgot has gotten updates before Ashe has.

  12. According to lolking the top 25 Ashe players don't even have a positive KD/R They either break neutral (after going so far as to round the KD) or Negative.

Now who am I to comment and state an opinion? Just another player. That has feelings a much continued support of this champion. She was a favorite when I played back in S4, and then when I made this account in S5, and fell in love with her after the rework immediately. No questions asked. As of now nearly 200k Mastery points and broke the Lv7 Mastery barrier the moment it was implemented within a few hours of gameplay post patch as you'll see here and the game that I finally achieved my lv7 here. I feel like I have enough experience with the champion and her kit to bring some form of opinion and at least offer solutions on how to keep this Snow White Queen slaying the enemy team.

Solution One: Reintroduce the Focus stacks upon successfully hitting an enemy champion with your W- Volley & R- Enchanted Crystal Arrow. This allowed for a bit of a decent laning phase and made 1v1ing members of the opposing team possible by generating your passive Focus stacks while actually fighting with your only offensive spells. You literally only get 2. And one is actually your ult. So allow Ashe's utility to benefit her...?

Solution Two: Frost Shot's passive slow increasing in intensity based on follow up attacks against a target. Meaning the more subsequent hits you are able to land against your Foe, thus increasing your slow on them. Allowing you to effectively kite better and or force them to disengage or completely commit. This I feel is a fair modification especially considering how many Items grant movespeed, in addition to the amount of gap closers, and AOE speed increases: Youmuu, Rightous Glory, Deadmans, Swiftness boots (being a DIRECT counter to the slow), Lucian W, Sivir ult, Ekko's Passive, Karma's Ult+Shield, Etc.

Solution Three: Provide some actual Focus to Ranger's Focus. Similar to how a Vayne must kite and focus 1 target for maximum effectiveness, let Ashe's activated Q-Ranger's Focus deal increased damage against the same target the longer you 'focus' them. This allowing a bit of strategy and depth to who this Marksman will single out and focus in a fight. If you're going to rely on your kiting then allow your pursuers to be punished for skilled maneuvers. Naturally of course the Increase in damage ONLY applying to your Ranger's Focus when active, and not to other abilities. (Possibly light blue crosshair on the target growing in intensity as they are being 'focused' Similar to Zyra's plants marking the target with a feint red crosshair).

Solution Four: New passive- Frostbite. Deals increased damage to movement impaired targets. The damage increase being based on AD or even a simple percentage. Thus offering her a bit more synergy with a team comp that can provide CC, and/or a damage bonus to the CC that she herself provides. Similar to the Oppressor mastery, however this in turn working well with her kit. Now this doesn't apply if the target is just standing still, however a slight bonus to targets slowed scaling with the slow percentage (allowing BORK to be viable) and higher ratios of damage for HARD CC, such as a Snare/Root or Stun/Suppress allowing the highest amount of additional damage to be done.

Now I am well open to critiques and other suggestions so long as they are creative in nature and origin. I'm not looking for a super out of control hyper carry, I just make a proposal for a champion that has a special place in my heart, and whom deserves a tender loving touch against her Ashe. Thank you for reading~

Also, I think this is my first forum post ^-^

Edit: This thread is NOT suggesting all of these changes to be implemented at once to allow her to snowball into some over powered monster. These are slight balance changes seeing as how shes a bit underwhelming. At the very least, solution 1 has the least amount of "over power" or abuse related possibilities tied into it. Consider that it was already in her kit upon release before down voting or nay-saying in the comments.

31 Comments

LaserDeathBlade5/20/2016, 6:16:39 AM3 votes

I think Ashe is perfectly fine, and is a good example of what an ADC should be

The problem with Ashe and every other 'normal' ADC is Ezreal/Lucian are too fukin OP

Better to just nerf those two instead of power creeping the ADC class even more

9kPluzZ5/20/2016, 7:04:16 AM2 votes

Bruh, at least checkout high-elo/other regions before you make a balance post. Ashe is a high priority pick in Korean high-elo right now. This post is a waste.

Miraweave5/20/2016, 2:59:01 PM2 votes

Ashe is fine. The best ADCs in the game right now happen to counter her.

Zarkkast5/20/2016, 8:13:14 AM2 votes

Ashe is currently the ADC with the second highest win rate.

She's far from needing any buffs.

Kieferr5/20/2016, 12:05:25 PM2 votes
  1. Ashe got completely updated last April 2015 if I remember correctly. Does NOT need another rework
  2. Her winrate is incredibly high for an immobile, low damage adc especially with the amount of tanks and zeds running around these days
  3. All your suggested changes are straight up buffs that would likely put her over the edge in terms of power
  4. Solution 4... u can't be serious?? Her passive applies cc to targets that she autos, u know that right? So.... do increased damage just for doing damage?

No offense, but you need to really educate yourself and understand how the game works better if you wanna suggest changes ppl are going to take seriously.

Yordlelayhehoo5/20/2016, 5:58:59 AM2 votes

Now that Zyra support is absurd, ahse zyra is a pretty great bot lane once again

Crossette5/30/2016, 10:57:34 AM1 votes

Underwhelming?

she's fucking bullshit mate

what, with the Q that shreds literally everything you aim at for no reason

the permanent slows from level 1 to level 18

W that doesn't actually do that much damage but you CAN'T FUCKING DODGE IT NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY

E for free global vision in a huge line

and then her ult. you know, the giant arrow that either stuns for 1s and does a quarter of your health early game, or stuns for 3s and does half of your health late game?

yeah, she literally three shots with point blank ult, volley and a Q auto late game

I don't think she needs MORE power

Narvuntien5/30/2016, 11:17:22 AM1 votes

She is currently being played in the LCK, as in right now, she is fine.

PiVoRx5/20/2016, 6:16:36 AM1 votes

bring yi back from dumpster

Narvuntien5/20/2016, 1:49:02 PM1 votes

Ashe is great her problem is that everyone is playing Lucian or Kalista and other champions that ignores her slow completely.

Basically she is fine they are OP.

Randomonium5/20/2016, 2:41:59 PM1 votes

While I appreciate the work you put into the post I honestly think Ashe is fine as she is. Yeah she didn't get touched in the "marksman update" but she did get a rework before that.

She also has a very high win rate in high elo and even saw some play at worlds in season 5. The meta doesn't favor her right now so we don't see her much in competitive play now but I have a feeling that the meta is shifting and we'll see her more in the summer split. She actually has a surprising amount of burst and with the vision changes her E is much more valuable now.

Drehirth5/20/2016, 6:10:24 PM1 votes

Hi. I'd like to say that I mostly don't agree with the post, but you put so much effort into it i'm going to go into detail why on most points.

1 Yes this is her definitive drawback and one of the things that is her weakness; however I don't think this should change really, because of how much it would change the character and ADD to mobility creep when I think they should be at least attempting to move away from it.

2 "Defensive skills" mostly sounds like another word for escape, and was already part of your first point.

                                                                                                                                                           Second, I think it's a shame you didn't mention her hawk shot and how much of a game saver it can be; while I can see why some people may have trouble using it to it's full potential, have you ever been in the lose-lose situation where the enemy team was able to set up shop near baron, and cleared wards? Blue trinket serves the same purpose, but may be on cooldown at the worst moment. The vision it provides can save your team from face checking/ getting caught or from enemy team killing baron for free and allows your team to take decisive action (because often times that situation leads to the enemy team getting baron for free AND people getting caught because no decisive action was taken)     
                                                  

Also early/mid game hawkshot into the enemies jungle more often than not will show exactly where the enemy jungler is, which is unbelievably useful information for the team. Say you see him at his wolves, your mid laner knows he may be getting ganked soon, and will hang out on the opposite side of his lane because he'll know which direction the jungler will come from. Your top laner knows they aren't getting ganked and can be more aggresive etc.

Also her ult is too game changing to be dismissed so casually. You, as an adc, have the option to start a fight without putting yourself in danger. That's more control over a game that most adcs won't have, and can be a big deal in solo queue if you become good at shot calling.

3 Not even sure where you get this from, have you read her passive? She basically gains ad on her autos from building crit, how is that not scaling with crit? One important thing to note is how her passive actually makes an infinity edge alone gold efficient and a ridiculous power spike. Other IE ads often build a zeal, or even complete ruunans before finishing IE because of how inefficient it is on its own, and are much slower to get going because of this. What's better is that nobody will realize this in a game, and often underestimate you causing you to win all ins in lanes that were even or even losing before.

4 ? Again her ult shouldn't be dismissed so casually, but I've covered that. Disengaging is very easy while your team is being chased with volley, I don't see the validity of this point (Sorry). Especially because most other ads don't have this at all, and will basically be forced to wait for one team to engage for them.

5 I think most ads are struggling with both feeling the need to build defensive, and needing to do enough damage to kill the tanks explained well in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZoQHSLsuAw

Having said that I've seen my damage increase quite dramatically in games where I've built defensive item after my first core two items, in other words her damage is very far from meager so long as you are alive and I don't think she suffers significantly worse than other immobile ads.

6 Not sure what you mean by this.

7 Not really? I'm looking at other ads base stats and give or take they aren't far from eachother. She has higher health than several early, and slightly less than those same ads later on. She seems middle of the pack tbh, vayne's stats are even lower than Ashe's.

8 Yea, feelsbadman.

9 If any changes are made they really should be in baby steps like they had been doing since her rework. I'd 100000000000000000000x prefer this treatment of balance compared to what happened to kog'maw with basically being trash to OP, to being completely lopsided with his skills.

10 Riot didn't think it was okay either, which is why that was said as justification for a slight buff??

11 Sivir's good, probably better overall than ashe (which is why she's seen pro play recently), but let's not forget how she was never played until ONE slight change to her w being allowed to crit (and a general consensus they she would again not be played if that were removed). This again is why I don't think any major changes/rework should be made if there are any made at all.

12 These stats aren't very relevant I think... and even if they were they don't even agree with what you said. The highest ranked player was diamond 5, and they had a very solid kda of 3.37, the next highest were in plat 4 with kda of over 2, I didn't bother looking at the rest because at this point even my own stats would seem just as relevant http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=drehirth (leave my winrate alone I swear it was above 60% 2 weeks ago before my worst loss streak ever -_- while playing this game, even though my kda didn't change and I don't think I played significantly worse in those games either but I digress haha)

One last point I feel like I should make is that she actually has a good laning phase despite what people seem to think... Let me put it this way.. ezreal has a safer lane and can still do okay even with a potato for a support, but all things being equal Ashe does great against most ads in lane. The only one I struggle with all things being even is a good draven. Then again often times you'll have the advantage of being underestimated in lane. If you have 4 stacks of q ready to go as lucian dashes into you... you win that fight... many lucians have made that mistake and have had to burn a summoner immediately afterwards. The only problem is when their support counters yours or is in general better than yours..

So my main point here is that I'm not in favor of any large changes, and hesitant for any straight up buffs (again, kog'maw's treatment has scared me). For now I'll be happy to another nerf of swiftness boots.

Cheers from a fellow Ashe player [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Darth Sidiouss5/20/2016, 7:52:49 PM1 votes

Ashe does scale with crit items its built into her passive. Other than that i would like riot to make her more interesting i have made several posts on her boring E to make it more interesting like making the arrow turn into a global ward that's made of ice. Her kit is just dull and not as fun sometimes as the other adcs.