Boards›Gameplay

A question that should be asked to each member on Riot's balance team

The Patriachy·11/13/2018, 8:57:36 AM·48 votes·15,408 views

Lord Dominik's Regards (2800g)

Stats +40 attack damage Passive Unique – Last Whisper: +35% total armor penetration.

The Black Cleaver (3000g)

Stats +40 attack damage +20% cooldown reduction +400 health Passive Unique: Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion Cleaves them, reducing their armor by 4% for 6 seconds, stacking up to 6 times for a maximum of 24%. Unique – Rage: Dealing physical damage grants 20 movement speed for 2 seconds. Assists on Cleaved enemy champions or kills on any unit grant 60 movement speed for 2 seconds instead. This movement speed bonus is halved for Ranged role ranged champions.

TBC is designed to be infinitely better than LDR at max stacks with the balance being that it takes a while to reach max stacks. Makes sense.

Get each individual balance team member in a room and ask them why Graves should be able to instantly stack TBC with one auto attack. They recently looked at Graves so they should be able to answer since they obviously decided the interaction was okay. If they can't answer, they should be fired.

This isn't even about Graves. This is about the balance team on League. Thanks,

30 Comments

DuskDaUmbreon11/13/2018, 1:44:41 PM10 votes

Well, Riot coded his autos as 4 separate hits. It's the same reason Lucian gets two procs of BC off per passive auto. It makes perfect sense why it happens. Riot could probably code an exception to it, though, but that could cause more bugs than it's worth.

However, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 35% higher than 24%?

Pretty sure that makes LDR still better at getting past armor...Hell, even Mortal Reminder has 1% more effective armor pen than BC (at 25% pen versus 24% shred), and its primary purpose is just being an upgrade to item 3123.

You can't objectively say BC is better than LDR in every situation when LDR has better armor shred and a cheaper cost.

nelogis11/13/2018, 9:29:19 AM7 votes

Are you complaining about LDR or BC or Graves?

TBC is designed to be infinitely better than LDR at max stacks with the balance being that it takes a while to reach max stacks. Makes sense.

Yes the Cleaver is also more expensive, if you think the items is so much better then just build Black Cleaver on ADCs I guess instead of LDR

PS: Black Cleaver is actually a dogshit item on it's intented users right now, you only get that thing when you can't get anything else. Even Darius switched to Triforce, one of the best BC users and I bet you if Urgot could he would switch to Triforce too.

Garen also gets Trinity more often than not.

Get each individual balance team member in a room and ask them why Graves should be able to instantly stack TBC with one auto attack. They recently looked at Graves so they should be able to answer since they obviously decided the interaction was okay. If they can't answer, they should be fired.

Theoretically seen it's working as intented, he fires 4 bullets, that means 4 instances of physical damage that means 4 BC stacks.

Death by Glamour11/13/2018, 9:19:20 AM6 votes

just a guess

but isn't it because he fires four bullets?

DeusVult11/13/2018, 3:02:41 PM5 votes

Riot could do what they have done to multiple other champs and code in a fix specifically between graves and BC.

Like they did for Jhin and item 3124

Or Shyvana and item 3077 / item 3074 / item 3748

Or Cho and item 3193

Etc

But they wont because Riot balance team has an obsession with keeping Graves near S tier in the jungle at all times

LilxPaprika11/13/2018, 1:39:33 PM4 votes

rito has lost it. that's what happens when megacorps (tencent) takes things over.
ATM our in world it's best to manufacture work to keep your job. league should

have long been balanced by now. I can do it in under a week, even from the

deplorable state it's in right now. but they shuffle things around end up making mess hope no one notices, eventually fixes it

only to prop up new messes elsewhere. @riot where slacking off is rewarded.

KFCeytron11/13/2018, 9:26:50 AM3 votes

He has a shotgun, firing shot. It's a pump-action, a break-action, and a revolver, but at least it fires multiple pellets.

As for justifying immediate full Cleaver stacks, he traded his ability to CS in lane, as his auto is now a targeted skillshot that stops on the first target hit. That's a pretty big tradeoff.

Sleep On Stream11/13/2018, 9:41:38 PM3 votes

REVERT GRAVES AND MAKE HIM ADC AGAIN PROBLEM SOLVED

Saianna11/13/2018, 9:43:45 PM3 votes

They recently looked at Graves so they should be able to answer since they obviously decided the interaction was okay. If they can't answer, they should be fired.

I can only guess but any decision in Riot is still managed by Meddler and the likes. There are "balance teams" but they cannot do anything without approval of their supervisor. To put it shortly: Riot is a mess of a company

Buff Riven Plz11/13/2018, 2:54:33 PM1 votes

The fighters who used to buy cleaver have move onto trinity. IMO cleaver's price should go up the HP should go down and the AD should go up. Something like 60AD 3300G 150HP? Thoughts on this?

Alzon11/13/2018, 9:45:48 PM1 votes

What’s the question?

Pika Fox11/14/2018, 2:44:36 PM1 votes

His single auto is multiple projectiles. Hes also in melee range to do so and only gets 2 autos total.

Modl Ryden l11/15/2018, 4:53:24 AM1 votes

Okay why does Darius and Talon get to apply a stack of TBC armor shred debuff during their bleeds?

Why does Morellonomicon re-apply after every tick of DoT from champs like Casseiopeia, Malzahar, and from the item Liandries?

Because they applied their damage type. And because that condition is fulfilled the effects are applied. Duh.

Sure you're not talking about just Graves. But your discussion certainly tunnels on just Graves.