@meddler context for the Ryze nerfs?

Spideraxe·Dec 7, 2016·3 votes·10,403 views

A little surprised with them

24 Comments

RiotMeddlerDec 8, 201610 votes

A well played Ryze on a coordinated team's too strong. His average performance isn't great, but when played really well he's out of line. Our belief is the Movespeed bonus on Q's particularly well utilized by really experienced Ryze players, hence targeting it as one of the places to remove power.

blackfootedfoxDec 8, 20164 votes

why not nerf his ult instead since its underutilized outside of coordinated teams?

Mika ATM HellDec 8, 20164 votes

{quoted}

why not nerf his ult instead since its underutilized outside of coordinated teams?

True , make Ryze viable on solo Queue , don't turn him into another Azir / Kallista

RexSaurDec 8, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mika ATM Hell,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OhMfuMen,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-12-08T03:23:51.666+0000)

True , make Ryze viable on solo Queue , don't turn him into another Azir / Kallista

Ryze is already more than viable in solo q, hes actually ban tier in high elo.

SanctimoniousDec 8, 20162 votes

I've played with a few Master / Challenger ryze players. That champion is scary but only a select few are super good on him.

blackfootedfoxDec 8, 20161 votes

I can only imagine shudders at the effective ults that murders teams

statelesskillerDec 8, 20161 votes

-shudders in pleasureful bliss as the enemy team takes a ryze ult into a Gangplank BAAAAAAAARELLLLLLL-

XyltinDec 8, 20163 votes

Even pro teams don't use the ult to their full potential and he would still be a strog competitive pick without it I assume (which is a huge problem in itself. An ult should feel strong).

His problems in high elo/competitive are the Q/W/E combos. If you do them right you can either trigger your shield and MS over and over and be hard to catch/kill without hard CC or you can deal insane amounts of AOE dmg.

in the end his Q just does too much dmg and his Shield/MS has no CD while being really, really strong. Nerfing the Q dmg and the MS are good steps.

TheHurricaneGamrDec 8, 20163 votes

Why not make him more accessible for the lower elos as well while you guys are going through with his balance changes?

RiotMeddlerDec 8, 20163 votes

I expect we'll do some of that too. Buffing at some skill levels while nerfing at others is a much bigger task though, so in the short term at least we'll probably have to start with a straight nerf until we've got a bit more time to focus on Ryze more.

Irelia BotDec 8, 20163 votes

You could always make ratios based on MMR /s

XyltinDec 8, 20162 votes

I would say the biggest difference between high and low elo are the repeated Shield/MS boosts. Giving it a CD would remove that option for high elo players but change nothing for most lower ones.

Another thing is the effective E -> E -> Q combo for AOE dmg/deleting the backline. Reduce the dmg on the bounce (can stay the same vs minions if needed) and just do full dmg to the main target. This combo doesn't get used too well in lower elos but is one of his main strengths in high elo. He can nearly kill your ADC without being really in range and on top of that he does hit a lot of enemies. You can never grp too close.

The last problem is his pretty decent early game for being so strong later in the game. Higher CD on early E ranks (3 sec at rank 1) or lower Q base dmg and a bit better scaling.

champagnearci7Dec 8, 20161 votes

and could you don't take too much time to focus in him? I heard you guys reworked him because it used to be too strong in High elo/competitive plays but he is still in that state. Right now ryze is overall bad but still somewhat unhealthy to play against.

TheorexDec 8, 20161 votes

Honestly; this is coming from a player who picked new ryze up right away.

This is how I see things currently being done at riot. You are nerfing things that do not need to be nerf at the moment. When you finally nerf the thing that makes the champion really overpowered, they are under the power curb for where they should be.

I completely agree that he has a very high skill difference just from experienced and inexperienced. Then Elo gap as well.

I personally think that if you are planning on nerfing Ryze. Start with what makes him strong first. His E.

At higher tiers of play this will be a very strong nerf where they can capitalize on everything.

At lower tiers of play most players will not even notice this change.

Instead of his E being 20%/40%/60%/80%/100% of Q damage increase. It should be something like 10%/25%/50%/80%/100% scale down how strong his early game wave clear and damage is. That makes him less of a lane bully.

Nerfing his Q movement speed IMO is a bandaid, start with a massive nerf. Instead of these small ones, and then work it up to where you like him at instead.

I miss the old riot where you would completely GUT a champion for three to four patches. Then come back after you have solid numbers and everything in comparison to the stronger one, then gave them appropriate buffs. Right now you are just slowly taking power away.

What I liked about Riot back when they would gut champions that were just simply too strong was.

1: I changed meta ALL the time. 2: That meant that it would give you a better picture of what you need to buff after a massive nerf, instead of you having to do guess work to figure out what the next nerf should be. 3: It gave birth to "xxxxx too strong? Better nerf Irelia" Ryze too strong? Better Nerf Irelia.

Currently everyone is sick of seeing the same champions getting played all the time, sure some people love it. Such as me, I love getting to play Ryze because he is overpowered. I won't even lie. His damage is simply insane. But because you will take too long to gut him into uselessness, I will most likely get away with playing Ryze until about Diamond 1 or 2 level.

Then I will move over to the next strongest champion, Cass.

But seriously; Riot please take what I am saying into consideration. I dislike seeing the same champions get played all the time. I enjoy seeing jungle changes because of the complete difference in champions. But Top lane has been pretty dominated by Kennen, Jayce, and things of that nature. Mid by Syndra, Sol, Ryze, etc.

Just gut these champions and make room for others. <3

Coming from a LoL player since 1994, I mean Season 1.

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 8, 20161 votes

more accessible ? he's already. a cc target... really he's simple enough

XxxLumberJackxxXDec 26, 20161 votes

Ryzes 9th rework confirmed

KaiokoDec 7, 20163 votes

He's extremely strong recently in both mid and top if you play him right. He's a late game champion whose murdering people left and right early game without even trying thanks to the aoe clear you get. His weakness has always been those who outrange him but that movement speed makes it meaningless.

BeginningDec 26, 20161 votes

Technically Ryze weakness is when the opponent stands out of minion range for e to spread to them, as long as they farm out of their low minions they're fine, like how MF works. Outranging can be a problem for things such as Xerath and Ziggs, yeah, though his speed doesn't give him full advantage to make it meaningless. Ryze struggles getting closer to them and that's why Stormraiders and Ghost are played mainly on him, he has to use all of his ressources to get a kill unless he hits a good e aoe with q.

AbyssphereDec 7, 20162 votes

Pick ban in competitive.

Alex h8721Dec 8, 20162 votes

:( just recent hit level 5 mastery on ryze and this saddens me

Edit: Pls don't hit him too hard, keep him somewhat viable.

PennsDec 7, 20161 votes

I think the idea of nerfing Ryze might come from his over 600 range point and click snare being a death sentence or his >2s cooldown EQ doing more damage than many ults Kappa

AS I LAY FEEDINGDec 7, 20161 votes

Tbh every range is fcking cancer in the toplane. Ofc he is getting nerfed both mid and top. And it looks like he is the new Azir aka low winrate high pickrate lcs and then nerfed to the ground later. I mained Ryze last season and mastered him. When you master Ryze you are getting 10x better winrate than 45% currently. Tbh i get the dmg nerf, but not the speed nerf. Sometimes i even bought ludens lol.

MakeItEasy4LolisDec 8, 20161 votes

Nerf a champion just because only a few people is good with it, also how can you nerf something because of the competitive, when there is no competition now and he hasnt already met any matchup in the competitive versus the assasins.