Too many champions that need banning, not enough bans.

Maximum Morde·Feb 1, 2015·21 votes·2,836 views

Title says it all.

17 Comments

RetillinFeb 1, 20153 votes

It's not really the bans. 3 is about right (maybe 4 but I can't see going past that). It's the fact that there are about 8-12 champions that are just always better than any other champions. This leads to such a imbalance that it feels we need more bans to get ride of the OP ones.

Like most of the issues that we see on the boards it has to do with people not trusting Riot's balance team. When you watch LCS and 6 bans go down how often do you hear "oh this left so and so open". It means that maybe that champion is too strong and needs nerfing if the casters themselves are surprised that someone makes it through bans.

NarasimhaFeb 1, 20151 votes

"oh this left so and so open". It means that maybe that champion is too strong and needs nerfing if the casters themselves are surprised that someone makes it through bans.

Just to jump in real quick, this doesn't always mean the champion is strong, but usually it means they left a champion open that someone on the other team is pretty proficient with.

RetillinFeb 1, 20152 votes

Could be. But when you listen you'll hear Riot Kobe say "I am shocked they left Gnar open, he's just so strong right now". It's not that often that you hear someone on the other team is really strong with them. Although that does happen. (used to happen more it seemed in S3 and early S4)

DoraTheBrownFeb 1, 20152 votes

LeeSin LeeSin LeeSin LeeSin LeeSin LeeSin LeeSin LeeSin and maybe JarvanIV

junglerboy16Feb 2, 20152 votes

I'm surprised at the number of people who don't realize that the fact that we can't ban away a consistent top 6 is a GOOD THING. It shows that we finally have at least a moderately broader competitive champion pool than we have had in quite a while.

Maximum MordeFeb 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm surprised at the number of people who don't realize that the fact that we can't ban away a consistent top 6 is a GOOD THING. It shows that we finally have at least a moderately broader competitive champion pool than we have had in quite a while.

Yes and no. From a strict numerical stance, yes there are more top tier champions. In practice it means even fewer champions get played because the over tuned ones crowd out the rest.

junglerboy16Feb 2, 20151 votes

I'd rather have the larger pool of overturned champions than a pool of 6 overturned champions. My point is that in this case, until real balance is attained (which is just shy of a pipe dream) having a larger pool of top tier champs is the lesser of two evils.

Maximum MordeFeb 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'd rather have the larger pool of overturned champions than a pool of 6 overturned champions. My point is that in this case, until real balance is attained (which is just shy of a pipe dream) having a larger pool of top tier champs is the lesser of two evils.

Not really. If there are 6 or fewer, you can ban them all out and have fun with the rest of the roster that is pretty viable. When more than that are over tuned, then you ban what you can, and pick the rest, effectively knifing off the other 100 champs because they aren't strong enough to win against the over tuned ones except in cases of a large enough skill difference. Leaves a very sour taste in my mouth for variety.

sweetrulesFeb 1, 20151 votes

I actually made a post about this issue yesterday, but no one really commented. The goal was to get a discussion going and hopefully figure what the majority of players would prefer and possibly input from riot on the situation. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/dtO8diJj-number-of-bans-in-draft-pickranked-or-normal

NarasimhaFeb 1, 20151 votes

Thats probably why increasing the bans is unlikely. Because then some champions would literally reach permaban status.

RetillinFeb 1, 20152 votes

Maybe, but for a whole season Kass had over 90% ban in the LCS and was left mostly untouched. For some reason they (Riot) did not see the same strength as the players. This might sadly be the same case if, say Gnar, was banned almost all of S5.

NarasimhaFeb 1, 20151 votes

Aye, but I think that was because EVERYONE detested Kass :P

I feel like Gnar is in a weird place right now though. Despite how people feel about him, he actually still is a tricky champion to use. He requires a lot of coordination late game, which is something that Solo Que tends to lack. Basically he's in the same place as Lee Sin, where high level players can use him consistently well, but lower levels can't make use of him so nicely. And honestly, this does put Riot in a bind, because both have decent enough pickrates combined with not so high winrates to make them seem like they're in a reasonable place. Granted, Lee does have some stuff that can probably be chipped off (Spell vamp? Really?), but Gnar's kit seems to be a lot more essential to him.

RetillinFeb 1, 20151 votes

I think, and I may be wrong, but the problem with Gnar is that his "unpredictable" form change isn't that hard to control. It should bounce around (his rage bar) more than it does. It has been shown to be easy to zone out whole teams by being high but just shy of transforming. I worry that Gnar will end up the Lee Sin of top and just crowd out other champions while being left alone. (Rene was this dominating top and was nerfed)

Gnar is just (like Kass, Lee Sin, Thresh) too safe a champion for the amount of utility/damage they bring to the table.

The TrentFeb 2, 20151 votes

No actually we need less bans. In my opinion bans are only used to ban a champion that is currently op because riot doesn't want to disable them while they are balancing them. Instead of giving more bans they need to balance more champions to the point where everything is balanced. Of course this will never happen cus riot is stupid and will probably make Urgot op some day.

LogosEthosPathosMar 27, 20151 votes

I think it would be a great idea. This would be one way to kind of force diversity among champion selections. I just have one suggestion. Keep the current ban number for lower elo/not yet ranked players. Then, for higher elo/competitive ranked, increase the number incrementally for each tier.