Boards›Gameplay

Nerfs aren't fun

JimmyNtheKudos··5 votes·469 views

Now before you attack me with "X champ needs a nerf NOW," just hear me out. I understand that some champions are inherently broken (Leblanc comes to mind), but many others are just simply strong and benefit from the meta. The problem is that when strong non-broken champions get nerfed they just become less fun to play. Especially when they are nerfed more than once, or have various aspects changed. I can think of a couple good examples:

Syndra: I agree her stun was broken and it needed a change, but did she really need a nerf on her other abilities? It just makes Syndra not fun to play anymore.

Elise: Too many nerfs just made her weak, who still actually enjoys playing her?

Nerfed champions are not only bad for their mains, they're bad for the team as that champion becomes a handicap. Nerfed champions become a shadow of what they once were, taking away what made them fun. At one point Riot was buffing rather than nerfing, and if a champ needed a nerf they made small changes, I think this was probably my favorite time to play league (somewhere between end of season 4 start of season 5).

TL;DR Yeah nerfs/changes are necessary, but repeated nerfs and changes to abilities make champs less fun. There should be more consideration taken when nerfing a champ as this is a game, the primary goal is to enjoy not to feel frustrated that a certain champion is weak.

14 Comments

EffectFX7 votes

Contrary to popular beliefs champion balance is pretty difficult.

JimmyNtheKudos1 votes

Obviously it isn't easy. You could leave an OP champ alone, buff his counter but now his counter OP, so the easier route is just to nerf the OP champ. The problem is 2-3 patches later some other champion got buffed, an item got nerfed the meta shifts etc. etc. now that original nerf made the champion weak (and hence unfun).

Dedrius1 votes

There are two ways to get balance.

  1. Nerf and overpowered champion to try to bring it back in line with the rest of the pool.

  2. Buff weaker champions or counters to the Overpowered champion to make it more difficult for that champion to dominate every game.

Both of these scenarios lead to the same thing which is some champions being outclassed by others. Even if they didn't nerf elise (example underpowered champ who got a lot of nerfs) and they just buffed all other junglers, she would still be weak in comparison.

The only other option is to just let the game play out and let the OP champs stay OP until the meta shifts and the game evens itself out and makes other champs stronger.

Rew7112 votes

Escuse me, why is Kassadin not on this list?

JimmyNtheKudos1 votes

Kass falls on the broken side, I don't think he carries my point across XD

broken =/= OP

Rew7111 votes

I don't think Kassadin is broken. He only pokes now and his only burst is his Q on 4 stacks, which costs 400 mana. His E is a poke, his Q is a poke, his W is as it should be.

Meanwhile, Ahri as a ranged fighter gains more on her Q, more on her W, more on her E (taunt), and more on her R.

Also, Akali deals more in all aspects though she is melee, she can get up close and personal easier than Kassadin with her ultimate.

Fizz who shares a similar passive, has 2 mobility spells. Yet his Q is great for closing in gaps, and his E is great for not only damage but being untargetable allows him to get away with no damage while dealing damage. His slow even lasts longer. His ultimate even deals more damage than Kassadin's after its been stacked 5 times. (Cassation's ultimate can only deal up to 360 damage for 800 mana.)

Katarina's Q deals only 10 less damage than Kassadin's but also damages 4 others. Her W deals more. Her E gives her Kassadin's passive and only deals 20 less damage than his E.

Kassadin is right now the weakest assassin. He can only poke, needs a lot of ganks, a lot of AP, and to make things even more stupid, his Q only deflects magic damage yet it only gives up to a 160 shield. It should deflect like 200 magic damage, his E needs 6 others to perform spells + 80 mana, yet he only slows for 1 second and deals a poke.

His total damage, if you are able to, at most is 850 damage. Then, his total AP is 200%.

Ahri's is 1154 and her AP is 274%.

Katarina deals 1250 damage and her AP is 360%. AND SHE'S GOT FREE SPELLS!!

I think Kassadin is that one champion people just don't like to play against due to how he use to be with his powerful abilities and OP ultimate.

They don't realize that he is so hard to use now. His Q is a poke that takes 70-90 mana yet it pokes the enemy and gives him a puny shield.

His E costs 80 yet it also pokes. Imagine having to use 6 spells to use this poke. In lane, I see the opponent use 1 ability and is able to knock out a lot of the minions, I however get to poke those minions and then wait another 6 spells to use it again.

I use my R up to 5 times just to deal, maybe 400 (this is + mana) damage for 800 mana to an opponent, unless they flash away or something.

Thank goodness my W gives back 8% of my missing mana, too bad its not even 10 or 20% half of what you get against champions. (Oh no, that'd be too OP.) Because what will Kassadin do with 200 mana? Use his only damage ability, his Q, or flash away for 50 with his R? (It's still OP, just 5 of those can gain back all his mana.) It ha a 9 second cool down. That means I'd have to wait about 37 seconds to to gain back 80% of my mana. (But, they'll compensate the damage.) Yes, dealing 140 damage in a free ability Katarina is so OP. (But Kassadin... he's broken.) What's broken, his legs? His inability to shield himself properly? The fact he can't just get a normal cool down on his E? Or the fact he deals less damage than all other Assassin/Mages in LoL and less than any assassin in general while also having to use so much mana to use his "mobility" since he now only pokes everything?

If you find anything wrong with this.... I must admit, you really hate Kassadin because I don't see any reason why you would put Syndra who can still lane well up there and yet Kassadin is broken.

JimmyNtheKudos1 votes

Broken isn't the same thing as OP bro. By broken I mean a champ who's kit is just inherently OP and impossible to balance. I mean even with such strong nerfs to Kass, he's actually seen LCS play.

Rew7111 votes

Imposible to balance...

You call a 1 second slow + some damage that costs 6 spells + 80 mana broken?

You call a poke damage that stops channels and gives a small magic shield broken?

You call a free W that deals good damage and regenerates some mana?

You call a mana doubling ultimate that cannot even do 10% of his mana, but up to 6% while taking half of his mana away to do so BROKEN!?

I call Katarina broken. Having free abilities and a ultimate that can deal up to 750 damage.

I call Leblanc broken. Having a free bonus damage ultimate.

I'd even call Ahri broken if having mobility + damage means you're unstoppable.

How do you balance this?

You know nothing about Kassadin, and yet here you are asking for BUFFS for certain champions people use to also think unbeatable and horrible to play against.

Also, since "broken" means he needs to be fixed, why are you not trying to help him improve?

He could use just a cool down on his E (major buff). It's not broken until its tested.

JimmyNtheKudos1 votes

I'm not a part of the balance team bro, I'm just expressing my opinion on champion nerfs. XD

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

LoLKiru2 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, playing against overpowered champions is far less fun than nerfs to those champions. I would much rather riot nerfed an overpowered champion than play against one. Hell even overnerfing an overpowered champion champion makes the game more fun than facing an overpowered champion. Overall, nerfing (and even overnerfing) an overpowered champion increases the fun of the game.

Even if elise is overnerfed, the game is much more fun with the current jungle than with the s4 lee sin elise only jungle.

This is where the issue is sort of on the fence though.

You have people who are genuinely balance issues (like LeBlanc or such), and then you have people who are strong, but have their strengths mitigated by weaknesses like Cho'Gath for instance (Yeah, he will PROBABLY kill you if he lands QWR. He however has no mobility whatsoever, making him pretty easy to kite; % hp damage is also especially effective against him)

It comes down to you needing to draw a line, how "strong" will you allow someone to be, before they become oppressive. Nerfing strong champions is a bad idea, being strong should be okay, you want as many champs as possible to be "strong". It all comes down to drawing that metaphorical line.

JimmyNtheKudos1 votes

Would the original Lee Sin/Elise only jungle be that way if the rest of the jungle champions were better balanced? This is where I'm trying to make my point, Elise was nerfed making her "balanced," but now the meta shifted completely now that nerf seems unnecessary. I don't know how Riot balances, do they have a master plan? or do they just go from patch to patch? Nevertheless, many champions have suffered from nerfs, and now they're less fun to play. Some could be rated as "balanced" but others have fallen to trash tier.

ZenithEevee1 votes

The thing is...

Elise is a hard champ to work on.

i mean, not as bad as Zed, Leblanc, Riven or Garen

But the thing is that Elise actively is all bout the enemy health.

If its high, her normal form can get it down in like 5 casts

If its medium or lower, She can 100% Get that kill in atleast 5 hits.

But her other skills kinda just pull her back.

Her rappel, for one, is a bad skill to even THINK about getting up first. For one, It can only target your area, or enemies. If this could target allies or even structures/wards/placed items/ZZrots portals, it would be better. Also, her root is lack-luster and doesnt offer much to people who have CC Breaking skills

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by JimmyNtheKudos

Reduce surrender time when someone leaves
Gameplay52 comments
194
votes
The most I've seen people unhappy over the overall game
Gameplay87 comments
103
votes
I'm doing better than you look at my KDA
Tips & Tricks85 comments
61
votes
Give Dyrus an honorary skin Riot
Esports27 comments
58
votes
Athene's buffs? Ty RIot!
Gameplay11 comments
37
votes
Hard to get information from new HUD
Gameplay2 comments
18
votes