"Minions Simplifying Minion Math as well as removing the ability for resistance penetration to increase wave clear power
Minions no longer gain Armor and Magic Resistance Minions gain increased maximum Health at a rate roughly comparable to the old resistance bonuses such that their effect HP is the same."
Has no one realized how much lifesteal will need to be nerfed in order to get rid of the increased sustain from minions from this change?
Worgslarg1 votesSource?
LeviathanTheEnvy1 votesSource?
This is from the update thats been on PBE for like 2 weeks.
Worgslarg1 votesAhh, that one. Was wondering why a recent thread referenced something I didn't notice.
Sailor Mint1 votesPBE has been on the live patch for over a week.
Neo Cyrus1 votesIt's not that simple. How would they nerf it? Any nerf to it wouldn't make it exactly equal since that's only on minions, it would completely mess with how it would be on champions.
LeviathanTheEnvy1 votesIt's not that simple. How would they nerf it? Any nerf to it wouldn't make it exactly equal since that's only on minions, it would completely mess with how it would be on champions.
Champions that use lifesteal are already rather overpowered, giving them more sustain in lane is ridiculous. Usually champs with lifesteal face other champions with lifesteal in lane so it would not be that big of a nerf, and considering the dominance of lifesteal champions vs other types of champions, the nerf would be good overall for champion diversity.
Neo Cyrus1 votesThey're most likely just going to either give it a reduced % of leech on minions (as in a % of a %) or just give two separate values of leech for minions and champions, which is not the same thing.
Sozan51 votesNot that much probably.
Both Melee and Caster minions start with 0 Armor.
Melee minion armor increases by 2 and health by 20 every 3 minutes. So for example at minute 12-15, melee minions will have 578 health instead of current 535 health and 8 armor. This is a really minor difference. Of course, if they game will drag on - the difference will be more noticable, as in minute 45-48 melee minions will have 982 health instead of 755 health and 24 armor.
Caster minions armor increases by 0,625 and health by 7,5 every 90 seconds (no, I don't get that either). So for example at minute 13:30-15, caster minions will have 368 health instead of 350 health and 5 armor. In minute 46:30-48 they will have 612 health instead of 515 health and ~19 armor.
For siege minions it is gonna be a bigger problem though, as both their health and armor are rather high.
And anyway, IMO Life Steal should be changed into a in-battle sustain mechanic. So, that it's good if you attack champions and it can sustain you, but it should be a mediocre choice between fights (it's best choice for both right now). Of course, it could be done with simple "Lifesteal have 30% effectivness against minions" and with somewhat buffed numbers.
LeviathanTheEnvy1 votesNot that much probably.
Both Melee and Caster minions start with 0 Armor.
Melee minion armor increases by 2 and health by 20 every 3 minutes. So for example at minute 12-15, melee minions will have 578 health instead of current 535 health and 8 armor. This is a really minor difference. Of course, if they game will drag on - the difference will be more noticable, as in minute 45-48 melee minions will have 982 health instead of 755 health and 24 armor.
Caster minions armor increases by 0,625 and health by 7,5 every 90 seconds (no, I don't get that either). So for example at minute 13:30-15, caster minions will have 368 health instead of 350 health and 5 armor. In minute 46:30-48 they will have 612 health instead of 515 health and ~19 armor.
For siege minions it is gonna be a bigger problem though, as both their health and armor are rather high.
And anyway, IMO Life Steal should be changed into a in-battle sustain mechanic. So, that it's good if you attack champions and it can sustain you, but it should be a mediocre choice between fights (it's best choice for both right now). Of course, it could be done with simple "Lifesteal have 30% effectivness against minions" and with somewhat buffed numbers.
That sounds like a really good suggestion. It would also balance spell vamp to a certain extent because spellvamp is a useless mechanic in comparison to lifesteal. If lifesteal was nerfed in that way, itd offer champions the opportunity to use spellvamp as well by decreasing its main competition.
Sailor Mint1 votesMelee minion: 0 (+1 / 90 sec) Armor Caster minion: 0 (+0.625 / 90 sec) Armor Siege minion: 15 (+1.5 / 90 sec) Armor
Lifesteal is nowhere near S2/S3 levels. Minions don't have enough armor early game to make a difference in lane. A Brutalizer (15 ArPen) is enough to bypass all non-siege Armor for the first 30 minutes of the game. The only significant difference would be late game without a Last Whisper or Brutalizer item.
At 8:00 against a 5 Armor minion, 80AD Caitlyn with a Doran's Blade will lifesteal 2.4 health per AA, up from 2.28.
Jamini1 votesI notice that a lot of people are totally discounting Armor Penetration items/runes.
By the time minions have any armor worth really noting, you have enough APen to deal true damage to them anyway.
It's unlikely this will change the state of lifesteal to be any more broken than it already is. (And honestly, it's the most toxic anti-teamwork stat in the game and should be nerfed into the ground in my humble opinion.)
Bauerbach1 voteswhat difference does minion health have in the grand scheme of things? Minions are an annoyance, but not a threat to me. Im certainly not going to target minions for life steal while the enemy wails on me... Ill be shooting the enemy back.
As far as recovery, I guess... I recover so quickly, I doubt Ill notice a change... recovery outside of combat is not a major factor for me... I ussually go into the jungle to do it anyway.
ceaselessphantom1 votesOh man minions have 4 less armor in lane is totally going to break lifesteal.
Seriously the feast mastery would give you more of a health increase than the raised life steal from this. And the feast mastery is already considered not that good. Virtually the only thing this may really do is make armor pen runes less valuable.
Marthian1 votesSTILL WORK IN PROGRESS. MAY NOT BE FINAL.
Drukyul1 votesHolding out for Lifesteal to be made a Unique Passive.