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If it aint winning, it aint op (serious discussion)

Duobyte·1/29/2015, 1:46:58 AM·3 votes·894 views

Feeling like the only person who doesn't care about Zed or Lee hate bandwagon. Basicly everytime I go to boards I see "Zed and lee are opressing and unfun to play againts" or "why wont blind rito gut lee" or "Zed feeds on Obama's tax money" etc

Assuming equal skill between teams, a team with with a Zed or Lee is more likely to lose than a team with an "underpowered mage" or "weak tank jungler"

Using op.gg and lolking.net as source, Zed and Lee are at the lower half of the win rate spectrum. These guys tend to lose more games to "weaker" or "champs with bad kit", So they aren't exactly RUINING games nor giving their team an "unfair" advantage. If they are so OP in the current metagame, then why arent they rofl stomping at ANY ELO. Having 48-50 win rate across the ladder these guys dont seem anything special. Often people claim that "Just because many noobs play them and fail doesn;t make them op". Well what is the deffinition of op anyway? Overpowered champ is a champion that rewards any player playing said champion. Clearly so called "noobs" arent being rewarded with anything other than lost LP. "Good Zed/Lee mains are bullshit to play againts" so is any x champ main.

"why are they banned or picked by pros all the time, clearly the pros know they are op" this is like the biggest hypocrisy I have seen in a statement where people bash on these two champs. You basicly are saying you want a champion who is borderline ballanced to be gutted so pros couldnt pick him. There are also other champs in pro scene that have higher win rates than said champions. Also these guys play at an extremely high level as a TEAM and not as a soloq random fuck fest. Lee has a good pick potential and happenes to be a strong jungler (which he was designed to be) as well as Zed who was designed to be an ASSASSIN that you know kills people. "he has mage level pusing power" well he is the only assassin left after nerfs to be decent. I guess we should all play utility mages mid lane because it isnt fair to be actually countered.

"Im forced into rushing zhonya because of zed T_T" well you clearly belong in low elo son. You dont understand the concept of counter building. That is like saying all AD champs are oppresive because you have to buy armour to counter them or how Ap champs are oppresive because you have to magic resist vs them.

Instead of just naming their strenghts "OMG good wave clear. STONG GANKZZZ OP nerf pls" why dont you look around the facts. Katarina for example is weak in theory but she has one of the highest win rates in ranked. Numbers dont lie. Practise and theory are two different things. People worry too much about some random facts while ignoring the truth-Lee and Zed are average champions in soloq, Lee isnt just popular because he is played in LCS, he is popular because he is actually fun to play as well and people often forget these things. Im sure that majority of lee and zed players picked those champs because they thought they were fun and rewarding.

7 Comments

SmokingPuffin1/29/2015, 2:35:10 AM4 votes

If they are so OP in the current metagame, then why arent they rofl stomping at ANY ELO.

Mistakes were made. High skill champions typically have sucky win rates. Low skill champions tend to have pretty high win rates.

"Good Zed/Lee mains are bullshit to play againts" so is any x champ main.

Not true. A good Varus is good, but nobody is throwing their keyboard in frustration when he kills them. Generally, everything Varus does feels fair, and when he beats you it's generally because you got outplayed.

A mechanic like Zed R is always going to be frustrating for people, even if Zed isn't objectively a strong champion at that time. On a similar note, Teemo currently isn't good, but many players will tell you he's bullshit to play against as a melee champion.

Well what is the deffinition of op anyway? Overpowered champ is a champion that rewards any player playing said champion.

I don't think this is right. That sounds like the definition of a faceroll champion.

I think an overpowered champion is one that, when played correctly, can expect to reliably defeat opponents that are also playing correctly.

Cenobite Azaziel1/29/2015, 2:01:04 AM1 votes

Hey, it just a coincidence that Lee sin is a staple in challenger for any jungle main/ filler jungle pick. I mean, it's fun to play with Janna right? Or j4, or VI or graves. It isn't about the meta, it is about fun. Especially in diamond. Oh, and pre season people picked WW because he was SOOOO MUCH FUN! 60% winrate? Nah, just need some of that good old fun! Could you please name a lee sin weakness?

SpongebobIsLife1/29/2015, 2:24:44 AM1 votes

I think I get the gist of what you're saying, and I agree with most of it. I personally don't think lee needs any adjustsments or anything. I mean, I've climbed all the way from bronze to plat 1 and I haven't had any problems with lee. Yes he has a good all around kit but he isn't as op as people like to think he is, he's just heavily played in the lcs. If it wasn't lee, it'd be some other champion. Zed, honestly though, is problematic for laning, but his teamfight sucks which is why his win rate is so low. But both are agreeably very fun!

Cenobite Azaziel1/29/2015, 9:01:16 PM1 votes

Shaco falls off HARD. Eve used to fall hard (now she is already beated by the jungle changes), panteon can fall hard depending on the enemy team comp.. Lee does not. I just presented you ALL team comps except for wombo combo. He can fit in that one too. Poor WW has a lame pre 6 gank and can't fill a poke comp. Can't deal with desengages really well. Shaco can generally be played in a hard engage and has to watch ou for aoe burst. NAut can't fit a poke comp.

Please, tell me again where lee isn't a swiss knife?

He escales better than pantheon in terms of burst and utility. Yes, the "falls off" can deal more damage than pant and has way more utility.