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Why can gp use an orange at any time but I can't use a stopwatch when I'm stunned?

NoJustice··2 votes·1,127 views

It's dumb and riot should change that.

14 Comments

Eedat3 votes

Because it would be pointless to have a cleanse that you can't use while CCed?

Vekkna1 votes

Like summoner 1 which is literally called "cleanse" and can't remove suppression like an orange?

Kai Guy3 votes

Cleanse is Reactive, Stasis is proactive and reactive. You cant proactively cleanse, it wont stop damage, it cant dodge ability's, its not gonna give you a few seconds worth of CDing ability's. Stasis can completely negate ability's and damage and it gives you a few moments to cool down and for teammate to react. Their uses and functionality differ greatly.

Vekkna1 votes

Unless you're AD with a Guardian Angel, in which case you get all of those things.

Kai Guy1 votes

At the cost of having less say in the matter. You cant always pick when enemy teams will kill you.

Vekkna1 votes

You can pick when the enemy team will cc you, though. Got it.

Kai Guy1 votes

You uh, realize that I specifically mentioned that cleanse is a reactive mechanic? To head you off note that that Being able to react with cleanse is a option you can decide its not worth using where as GA is forced, it triggers or it does not as a player you have less say in if it gets used. This is why I specifically said that it comes at the cost of having less say in the matter.

Do you require any further assistance?

Vekkna1 votes

I feel like you're splitting hairs because cleanse and stasis are both actives designed to help you not die when you would otherwise die. Sometimes you cleanse a cc and die anyway. Sometimes you die right when you pop out of stasis.

You can save actives instead of using them, but that's a pretty small upside compared to the downsides of being locked out of using them, requiring quick reflexes, and having to time the active on a snap judgment.

There's also the matter of unexpected deaths where you're not even expecting to need the actives. Like, you're low hp and recalling between your turrets in mid. Out of nowhere, you die from a Lee Q out of your jungler's raptor camp. If the GA effect wasn't insanely better in every way, it wouldn't have a 300 second cooldown vs 120 seconds, which is its only meaningful downside.

I've seen this same argument before about Seraph's vs. Hex/Maw, and the same thing applies. The passive ass-saving effect from Maw is just flatly better, particularly in solo queue where picks are more common, and especially when shit like Kai'sa and Leblanc are pumping out insane burst.

Kai Guy1 votes

Alright, Thank you for your response and being clear on your view. So, I feel that your isolating to much of GA to support your belief and point. I don't think your trying to do so with ill intent so I am going to treat you like your behaving in good faith. GA passive is very binary in how it works hp hits 0 it triggers. There's no player input here, its yes or no. Is it off cd, did your hp hit 0. You don't get any say in it as a player. This is not inherently bad but its not inherently superior to activated ability's. So a lot of your stance seems to be built off GA and off its trigger after which your then comparing the other ability's to it. I don't think that's ideal for a discussion, again GA is binary its yes or no theres not a lot of wiggle room or skill expression. If we take its 100% yes and compare everything else to that then it looks like a lot of situations why yes GA is obviously "stronger" how ever by doing so we are inherently unable to look at the time Ga is not triggering and on the flip side every situation that ga is 100% "weaker" but that the actives could be used for a positive gain for you as a player. I feel this is further supported by your statements on hex/maw vs Seraphs because it should be pretty obvious that Maw/hex are totally useless for shielding physical damage but seraph's can. Its in a state where it triggers and thats good or it does not and having it would be bad, there's just no middle ground. I don't think its wise or fair to compare the passives with the starting point only being the situation they are of use.

In your lee example, cleanse is useless because its not CC that's resulting in your death. Hourglass is useless because we are assuming that the Q either is enough to kill you on the first hit, or you as a player, fail to recognize your in danger and do not hit a key, or that your hp is already so low and lee has enough hp that even if you activate it before taking lethal damage. he can wait the duration out then kill your low hp ass. In this situation GA is the best option, but its a situation built FOR ga to be the best option. Also Id like to point out there is a very good reason I call Stasis as a Proactive ability, you need to anticipate or react before a negative affects you, the only way for example to result in a favorable situation for the non lee player with Stasis Is that they used it before his Q ever even landed, causing lee to have to use other ability's to gap close or burn some SS, and honestly the GA trigger is not necessary . We can create different situations that clearly portray the other ability's as "stronger" where GA would be "useless or inferior." Our teammate gets CC cleansed by item 3139 item 3222 and uses that to make the game deciding pick. GA does nothing here, Stasis does nothing, its not a defensive play but it still decides the game. in this example we have isolated Cleanse being the superior mechanic and there's no room for argument because the example is built to not allow for it.

"because cleanse and stasis are both actives designed to help you not die when you would otherwise die." No... they are not.

GA is a passive designed to give you a 2nd life when you die. Ga is the only one that is entirely about if you would or would not die. That's all it looks for and its a contributing reason to why I think your comparing every thing else to GA usage with out giving the correct consideration to the proper usage of the other two options we are discussing here.

Cleanse is about removing most forms CC. The result of which can be the plays resulting in your survival or enemy's deaths, or grabbing objs, or being able to support your team in a meaningful way. If we only look at the cross over situations where GA is working its going to be inferior just the same way GA cant do all of the same plays a Cleanse can. I don't say GA is weak because it doesn't allow you to walk thru Veigars E and kill him and cleanse is better because you can, that's not GAs place that's not the standard I should be judging GA on.

Stasis is more similar to GA but again its Proactive as well as reactionary. you can avoid damage with it, you get to pick when to use it and that alone means your able to use it at opportunity's that are more useful to you as a player then GA would be. Theres still going to be times where GA works better, but the functionality differs enough for it to have its own merit. If we create a loaded example, I can avoid a 100% to 0% combo and be at max HP afterwards where as GA would just put me in at 50%, again its a loaded example but the fact we can make one shows there is at the core a difference in functionality between the two.

Next up, cooldowns are a part of ability's and their power in addressing the game state. Its not realistic to call something a stronger mechanic if we eliminate all its weaknesses and do so completely disregarding the actual state of the game. If we gave all of them 0 CD... yea ga wins hands down you cant die ever and come back with 50% hp. How ever the fact you can use Stasis and cleanse more often is part of their strengths, its part of what makes them good, you have to address the live state. When talking about the power of something you need to consider its CD, that's a part of its strength or weakness. Is Karthus with 4 second CD on his R balanced? If Veigar R was on the same CD as Zoe R? This kind of reasoning does not help prove the power of an ability because its not being realistic to the game. You cant make the claim "this is better then any other option in the game because if we could change it to a different state then how it functions in the game its stronger then other options"

You get that right? The power of anything in the game is determined by how it exists in the game, not hypothetically, not with any arbitrary adjustments, not by isolating its strength then creating situations centered around its strength and comparing everything to that.

Ability's are only ever a threat when off cd. Your locked out of them only after use, this is the same for a triggered ability like GA or Hex. In both cases, having the option is better then not in all situations on paper but you would have to be a terrible player to not understand that you need to use ability's and not hoard them. So yea abilitys are not a threat when CDing.. but there also not a threat if you wont ever cast them.

Even if you don't agree with me at all/much I do hope its clear for you why I personally very much do not consider your statement of "Unless you're AD with a Guardian Angel, in which case you get all of those things." to be accurate to the games current state.

Slythion2 votes

did you...forget the purpose of a cleanse? god damn

NoJustice2 votes

[deleted]

Slythion2 votes

you are t o x i c...

and wrong. It's embarrassing to see the way you're acting though

Nørse2 votes

Stop watch doesn't remove CC, oranges do. It's the power of vitamin C.

Aptest1 votes

Because the purpose of a stun is to prevent you from being to outplay things and get the team that landed the stun free time with your character, with you not being involved.

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