The Sejuani buffs/nerfs are an extreme example of a horrible way to balance tanks

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Any time a champion has too much CC to ignore and the durability to survive and do well, they tend to be exceedingly powerful in pro play and borderline irrelevant everywhere else due to much weaker coordination (unless their numbers are so overtuned that they do well EVERYWHERE, which is obviously a bad thing).

It's not an easy problem to solve, really.

I myself and a few others were carrying games using pre-reworked Sej who was doing exactly that pretty well actually. A lot of battlefield control with the tankiness to boot. To be honest, she wasn't actually that tanky compared to most tanks but she her appeared to be so due to the damage she prevented through her plentiful CCs. She wasn't even picked in pro play at all but did pretty well for the few people who played her in soloQ. And she wasn't 100-0 anyone unless you'd make some whacky,squishy ap build.

I think it's pretty easy to solve tbh, due to the fact that not every champ needs to be pro play viable. Heck, Riven's the Rito's soloQ poster girl that very rarely, if at all, appears in pro play, and that seems to be pretty accepted overall.

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Any time a champion has too much CC to ignore and the durability to survive and do well, they tend to be exceedingly powerful in pro play and borderline irrelevant everywhere else due to much weaker coordination (unless their numbers are so overtuned that they do well EVERYWHERE, which is obviously a bad thing).

It's not an easy problem to solve, really.

simple solution, cancel the lcs, oh right that's the only thing they balance around now a days...might as well just remove public access to league then

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Any time a champion has too much CC to ignore and the durability to survive and do well, they tend to be exceedingly powerful in pro play and borderline irrelevant everywhere else due to much weaker coordination (unless their numbers are so overtuned that they do well EVERYWHERE, which is obviously a bad thing).

It's not an easy problem to solve, really.

That should force people to actually work together and coordinate, right now I am finding it hard to see people wanting to help out each other.

They created the problem..... THEN IT'S THEIR FREAKING JOB TO FIX IT.

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is a balanced tank, and is actually really fun to play

True, what I like about him is how he sets up kills and gets into the enemy team. His W and E are good tools for teamfighting.

Nautilus is definitely one of my favorite tanks to play. The addition of sheild bash is great for him too.

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Yep, the hilarious irony of this terrible patch is that the changes to Ornn and Sej will most likely make them better in competitive play, not worse.

You go play Ornn top and let me know how that works out. Try CSing against a ranged champ or diver without your shield. Please do. Then report back to us about how sad you are. There is zero chance Ornn is able to play competitively with how AWFUL his laning is now. He will fall behind and by the time he able to catch up, the game will be over.

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Let's be honest. Tanks like won't even be that good compared to the same junglers that you seen in your games consistently.

Not sure if you are complaining over soloq or pro play. It can't really be both.

Point of the complaint is that this way of balancing tanks that they've been doing over the more recent years, especially s7/s8, the more damage/less CC & tankiness way, is just bad, I've explained why, and many others have done so before during all this time.

It's not about tossing me or others a cookie by making one or two champs the way we want in order to get us to shut up. It's about overall game health. is just the most recent example of this problem so I used her. It could've been any tank.

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The problem is until they nerf everyone else's damage, Sejuani needed this. Honestly getting a whole bunch of Armor and MR for free was a bad passive to start with because you can't easily balance that. You run into the problem of forcing Sej into one role and then you have to make sure her damage is so weak that the fact she is almost impossible o kill is still balanced. Just a nightmare to balance when you throw in pro play who barely need her to do damage at all to be a unstoppable force.

If they realize it's such a nightmare to balance her for pro play ever single her rework(which it is, we all know this), then maybe it's about time they admit the rework was a major failure and consider a revert, buffing/nerfing her accordingly to fit the current jungle. Add to that list , and ,etc. There's nothing wrong with having some champions that work only for soloQ. Some champs like ,heck even most of the time are generally accepted to be champs mainly for soloQ.

Could you imagine them trying to rework for instance to make him pro play viable but then making another unholy mess of a champ that can never be balanced for both? Yea, let's not go there. They'd have enough champs for pro play if at least half the rooster was closer in power, without there being champs that are S+/S/A+/A compared to everyone else. Doesn't matter if those high tier champs change every couple of months/weeks even, they should try to have a wider viable champ pool available AT THE SAME TIME.

Thing is, I don't think they'll ever nerf everyone's damage at this rate, and giving one of the classes that would have other ways to be viable other than high dmg(tanks on top & jungle,tanky supports, enchanters) more damage just to keep up. I mean, if they ain't gonna start with these classes, where will they start? I guess a major patch where they cut down on everyone's damage,keystones included would be the only other option but honestly that feels like chasing unicorns at this point.

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while i agree with less damage sejuani needs that damage as they gutted her damage to get her to the place where she is now. sejuani needs her damage back up but more importantly she needs a useable passive not one that falls off in poke with no way to get it back except going afk that is horrible design for a front liner and the main reason tanks stopped picking up so they changed it to ap instead of giving the aps their own item and taking the stuping needing to be out of combat to get back a shield that was already super long cooldown (for what it gives at least) Not long cooldown for things like youmuus and ruind king and hex tech items

Tanks like her wouldn't need all that dmg if they'd have other ways to carry, like better CC and items that synergize better with their tanky stats & CCs. Items who's CC's scale of tankiness, CC's who's range/radius/aoe and length scale of tanky stats, perhaps damage more ways of damage reflection, single target,circle aoe, cone,etc that also scale off tanky stats.

If you can't carry by killing your target, then you can still carry by slowing 'em down long enough that either your damage over time starts adding up significantly or your allies might just have time to reach you to do their part.

Once again, old Sej is a fine example of a champ who could actually do this.

Then I guess tanks have never been meta in LoL, as there has never been a point where actual tanks one shot anyone.

And no, these champions are not, nor ever have been tanks.