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Why Zhonya's argument is pointless in the 'Zed VS AP mage' scene

Opistach··6 votes·2,311 views

Zhonya is a highly expensive 3k+ gold item.

Zed can buy Hexdrinker for 1.45k gold.

Here's why it is more effective though. It gives an awesome early sufficent amount of MR, AD, and a powerful passive. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Hexdrinker

This page even states that it is 103.4% gold efficient WITHOUT the passive, which is where my argument is standing. So Hexdrinker is not only highly gold efficient, but you can get it early than Zhonya, and relatively fast cooldown. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Maw_of_Malmortius This page is what the hexdrinker builds into. It is not as gold efficient with the passive, no. But with the passive it has a gold efficiency of 165%! Honestly holy shit!

Seekers armguard isn't even as gold efficient as the hexdrinker until it gets his stacks up. Making Hexdrinker better than armguard in my honest opinion. Heck, even the Hexdrinker passive is up instantly, making it way more gold efficient than armguard. I am just looking at this though, I just don't see how zeds can argue that APC's can block his ult, but Zed can get a 400 damage magic shield with fucking awesome stats too, that he might not even have to use because he is untouchable. Hey, another fact; this item give Offensive and Defensive stats, just like Zhonyas! I believe Zeds AD scaling along with his steroid makes his abilities scale way harder than most APC's. Also, this is kind of funny, for every 2% HP missing on the Maw of Malmortius, Zed gains 1 AD, up to 35 damage cap. Making all of his abilities considerably more powerful at low hp, while having having a 400 hp shield to help his ass out below 30% hp. This is also ironic because that 35 AD will combine with his AD steroid . 35 * .25 = 8.75 +35 = 43.75 AD. Zed can get a bonus 43 AD from the passive alone at lower hp, while having another 60 AD. 60 + 43.75 = 103.75 AD. That is 103.75 AD at low HP along with 40 magic resist and a 400 HP shield at lower health levels.

Hope this math is correct. I guess I just find this ironic, Zed has an item equally efficient as the aspect of zhonya's, while having a much safer and bursty kit than most APC's.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Seeker%27s_Armguard http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Zhonya%27s_Hourglass

Credit to http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/

Sorry for this being so vague, but you guys can argue this all you want. Zed still seems to have better itemization in defense terms too compared to the APC's that build Zhonya'.

TLDR: Maw of Malmortius is more efficient than Zhonya in a survival and offensive aspect. Buy it for Zed.

Also, feel free to argue with this, I know it is kind of a vague post for how wordy and boring it is. But I'll take a look at all of the criticism, facts, and opinions.

EDIT: All my links appear to have broken!!! I will fix this

22 Comments

Leblancs Boob6 votes

Zed mains think Zed is entitled to be ridiculously overpowered because of the existance of Zhonyas. Meanwhile use the Zhonyas active and block Lux's entire burst or completely evade a Veigar ult. There is literally no reason for Zed to be in this state of broken.

disregardable1 votes

This is why Veigar has a stun and Lux isn't meta.

Daishø1 votes

zed isnt meta either. i rarely see zed players other then myself.

Opistach2 votes

Zed, Lee Sin, and J4 are probably, quite literally. The most used champions currently in the meta.

Opistach2 votes

This guy. ^

Why don't we make all champions on Zeds level? Zhonya's blocks all of their burst too!

SmokingPuffin4 votes

Hexdrinker is fantastic. Very underbought.

That doesn't change Zhonya's as being a huge weapon against Zed. Pretty much everything Zed does is built on the fact that he can all in you. If he is no threat to kill you, you can push him around easily because his poke really isn't anything special and he only gets sustain if he's in melee range of the minions.

Most players that struggle against Zed play the matchup too passively, letting their opponent land unanswered Qs and last hit with melee attacks for free.

The main argument against Zhonya's as a Zed counter is that rather a lot of mages need a mana item, and Chalice doesn't cut it anymore.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Tear of the Goddess or two Doran's Rings are usually sufficient mana sustain if you don't spam your abilities too much. Personally, I've just been getting Tear of the Goddess and using scaling CDR glyphs as most mages against AD opponents.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

This is really champion dependent. You can't go item 3070 on Brand Lux Velkoz Xerath etc etc etc, and two item 1056 isn't enough mana regen for many mages.

Opistach1 votes

I do agree with this, Zhonya is a 'weapon' against Zed. But that doesn't mean he cannot work around it, that ADC didn't build zhonyas. But really, if Zeds start building Hexdrinker/Maw, or even start rushing it. Their play will advance to be far superior than what Zhonyas is able to do, and it is so effective early game compare to a mag erushing Seekers, and that may purely be because of Zeds steroid and scaling.

But I also don't want people to get the idea that I am ranting on Zed directly, I am ranting on the argument that Zhonya's makes Zed useless, and that is completely incorrect. Zed can in fact, work around Zhonya'd targets. Probably about 70% of the time, and I am not doing any research. The character Zed is ulting will activate Zhonya mid-way through Zeds ult, preventing anything further damage that could possible harm them.

But something that urks me hard is people saying Zed needs his ult to kill, not true. He needs is to 'assassinate' effectively, but his AA's and the rest of his kit are just soooo powerful. Which makes his raw ultimate even more powerful. But back to if a mage blocks Zeds ultimate. Zed can back out instantly and recuperate while his team does some work, or stay in for awhile longer, plug off some powerful AOE, and then back out. CC doesn't seem to be a big problem for Zed IMO.

That is what I think, feel free to argue back.

disregardable1 votes

blocks 400 damage vs blocks 90% of your damage. gee, they're so similar.

Opistach1 votes

If you ult a guy with Zed and he Zhonya's, then continue to commit. Your argument is invalid here, he literally has the ability to flash back out, INSTANTLY.

disregardable1 votes

I think you lost some words there. No idea what you're trying to say.

Joe Dredd1 votes

ya

Opistach1 votes

Happens.

disregardable1 votes

So your ult does no damage and you stay. You can't use your W because you need it to escape. That gives you shurikens, your e, and bork to try to assassinate someone under tower. If you're against anyone with CC, you're dead when you didn't leave instantly. If you're against someone without CC, you just wasted your ult+bork to do as much damage as one tower shot+one ability did to you.

And the enemy's ult is up.

You lose either way.

Opistach1 votes

You know hiss ult can be cast twice right? You know that if you any has know CC you can attack somebody else right?

How do I lose? You are giving false facts and nothing else. I don't think you understand.

AHeroNamedHawke1 votes

Armguard is cost effective at 8 cs and then stacks up to 147% at 30 cs

2320g of Maw's value isn't procced until you hit 30% hp (AD scaling up ofc), where Zhonya's is at it's maximum all the time, and can do much more than avoid 400 magic damage

Opistach2 votes

Yes, this is very true.

But people are complaining that Zed also can only kill with his ult, which is in fact, false. fantasy, pseudo, wrong, fake.

I hate it when people say that, it is meant for assassination, but that doesn't limiting his fighting capabilities, and ZHonya certainly does not block Zeds mobility.

Kuroi861 votes

Rushing Zhonya's is pretty dumb. You've got more range and CC on your side, farm up, don't pick fights. Deny him kills and watch him flounder. If he roams, push lane and push down his tower. Mages should be trying to get cs for their items and pushing for the team fight phase, not trying to out assassin an assassin.

Opistach1 votes

Most 'mages' in this game have to rush Zhonya's in this game against Zed. Unless they are Lissandra, Fizz, or Ellise Zed is going to kill you almost instantly if he has a brutalizer at six. Also, yes, most mages tend to have at least one hard/very hard CC ability, but Zed can outrange most mages, not all of them, but a pretty hefty amount. One does not simply deny a Zed kills, he is an assassin. He will get those kills from somebody no matter how well you do against him, also, his waveclear is unreasonably good. Probably one of the best in the games in fact, early that is, and late. But I am not ignorant to the fact that other champions have amazing waveclear as well. So in my opinion, and many others, maybe to the the cold ahrd fact that he is assassin. He does not 'flounder'.

    He is a snowball, if you try to melt a snowball at freezing temperature what happens? It freezes again, only as ice. I use this metaphor to symbolize that regardless of you putting him down, he will get right back up again, and often times stronger than you. But what if you apply constant heat to that snowball? Attacking/killing him constantly. He is ALMOST untouchable, not completely, he doesn't bounce around like a Fizz. But I say that this is almost an invalid tactic regardless, while you focus on one thing, something else is getting stronger. Unless your team can prioritize everything, you can't keep everything weak. But if you can do that, it is irrelevant, you and and your team are obviously capable, and deserve to win the game. So every champion on the enemy team was irrelevant.

Zed roaming is a big issue for ALL lanes. He is very stealthy, not invisible. But he is fast, and his ult was built for 'get the fuckin, get the fuck out.' Yes, you can push his tower, that is very helpful. But it doesn't help the fact your bot might've gotten double killed, or your Top is now pissed. Maybe even roamed and stole your junglers buff, or even your junglers life! Splitpushing is PURELY about trading, nobody is going to splitpush unless their lane is currently pushed. Just to ensue they have the maximum amount of time for roaming possible.

(Also splitpushing is like figuratively slapping somebody in the face. "You aren't worth my time, that juicy Jinx at bot is a buffet with 300 gold + Appetizers.)

Kuroi861 votes

No, you die instantly if he has a brutalizer at six and you are low health. I've played Zed, he's among the least snowball of assassins.
He's heavily ult reliant and NEEDS to get someone low before he can assassinate them.

While your logic may seem fine, you're missing a big point. Zed is an assassin, who excels in 1v1 situations, where you do not. Why are you going to engage Zed when the fight is in his favor? Sure, throw some harass at him to try and keep him from wanting to do heavy trades with you. But don't go trying to assassinate an assassin, IT'S GOING TO BACKFIRE. All assassins suffer the same feast or famine syndrome, deny them kills and their effectiveness falls off hard. People act like that is all you need, but no, you need to keep denying them kills or else they will force a come back. Just because you're ahead doesn't mean you forget strategy and go tard city.

Yes, Zed roaming is a big deal, it's what assassins typically do. It's why you want to be aware and you want to ping any MIA asap! If you don't then you are directly responsible for Zed getting any kills. And unless you yourself are playing an assassin, there is typically no reason to try and follow as you won't make it in time, your best bet as a mage is to push lane fast and hard and try to go even in gold.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Relevant http://24.media.tumblr.com/6e4a5b837816ae24896a9b3b066ee483/tumblr_n0agsjVAMp1rf7odyo1_500.jpg

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