Yasuo has all these """free""" stats because he's one of if not THE squishiest melee champ (long)

yay nibbers··6 votes·1,344 views

Yasuo is basically designed to be a melee marksman/ADC. Funnily enough, marksmen don't do too well in melee range because of their defensive stats. Like ADCs: Yasuo has low base HP, relatively low HP regen, no scaling MR, and even lesser offensive stats.

Compare him to Tryndamere, another melee champion who shares the same roles as Yasuo (Fighter/Slayer). At level 1, Tryndamere has:

  • over 100 more HP than Yasuo, 626 compared to Yasuo's 518
  • two more HP regen
  • 6 more AD
  • equal attackspeed
  • 0.6 less Armor
  • 2 more MR (that will then scale with level where Yasuo's will not)

Now compare him to the upcoming ADC, Xayah, who has:

  • 27 HP more than Yasuo, 545 compared to Yasuo's 518 (she's not even the only marksman with more HP than Yasuo)
  • 0.51 less HP regen
  • 0.6 more AD
  • 0.05 less attackspeed
  • 0.7 less armor
  • equal MR (no level scaling, of course. Just like Yasuo)

Notice how Yasuo's stats are roughly equivalent to the new marksman but considerably lower than Tryndamere's, a champion who one would think is pretty similar. Yasuo's health doesn't even catch up in the late game, where he has a low 1912 at 18 (almost 400 less than Tryndamere).

So now let's look at his shield. It blocks 100 damage at level 1. Without putting an ounce of thought into it, one might say that this shores up Yasuo's HP discrepancy with Tyndamere and other melee champions, and they'd be half right. You have to take into account however than even a single point of champion/monster damage will pop the shield, making it fade away completely 1 second later. If we consider his shield effective HP, any champion with a ranged auto attack can effectively hit him for 100 damage regardless of their actual damage, then unload on him a second later to hit his actual HP directly. Yasuo has this shield because of his low HP and HP regen, and has clear relatively easy counterplay.

What's the deal with his double crit chance then? Whiners often ignore the fact that he takes a penalty to crit damage for it, a penalty that applies after Infinity Edge's bonus making it a less effective item on him than every other champion in the game, but even ignoring that there's good reason for it. Yasuo, as established, is as squishy as a marksman. Generally, marksmen don't like being in people's faces because they often enough die before they can be useful (that is, deal a significant amount of damage). Marksmen mitigate their weakness by, wait for it, being ranged. By being at range, Marksmen keep out of the range of high damage melee champs and have more time to react to skillshots and other big damage from things like mages or even other marksmen. Yasuo does not have this advantage however. Generally, Melee champs have higher resistances and often also build more resistances so they can stay alive longer in the thick of things and put out as much damage as possible. Seeing as Yasuo does not have these increased resistances, it only makes sense to instead make him do more damage accomplished with his double crit. Yasuo does not have the luxury of plucking away at your HP from range while he waits to finish all of his items like marksmen do, so instead his build "turns on" more or less after two items compared to three or so like marksmen. If Yasuo did not have his double crit, he would not do enough damage to be worth picking or they'd have to give him some other source of damage. A bonus effect of this double crit passive being his main and really only source of big damage, is he's pretty much forced to build crit (especially when you take his ult into account). Because of this passive, at the very least two of his item slots are locked into being offensive items, and to keep relevant damage with his lowered crit damage he has to keep building offensive after that. Remember bruiser Yasuo? How about tank Fiora? I don't think anyone wants him to do either of those things.

As a bonus, here's a quick blurb on why he has the much complained about Windwall: If he didn't have it or something like it he would die moments after diving into an enemy team or even before he can reach enemy mages or marksmen or just about anything that does high damage. Because his dash is unit targeted, if his target is out of range and he doesn't have a string of minions to close the gap, Windwall is his only hope of surviving an approach on high damage enemy champs particularly in the late game where he'll have few or no defensive items to mitigate damage.

So there you have it. That's my analysis on why Yasuo has all those "free" stats people complain about. Hopefully it opens some eyes but I'm sure most people would rather keep their eyes shut and blindly rage about Yasuo instead of learning and understanding.

If you'd like to shit on me some in the comments, I'm a Yasuo main in norms who's never made it past low Silver in ranked. I mean, that's pretty much average elo but I'm sure my opinions on balance will be disregarded for it anyway. If you'd actually like to learn and get some tips for playing against Yasuo, I'm happy to give some tips.

29 Comments

WalkingInACircle3 votes

So, if we give his stats a little buff, you'd accept losing one of his two passives? You can pick, both are strong.

yay nibbers1 votes

Personally I think he's close to balanced as is right now so I don't really think a big change like that is necessary, but it's not a bad direction to go. For the sake of alleviating frustration though (and maybe even a small nerf), perhaps giving him a bit higher base HP or better HP growth at the cost of shield strength could be a way to go.

Akenero3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Windy Ronin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MkmXvAKv,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-04-13T17:02:57.104+0000)

Personally I think he's close to balanced as is right now so I don't really think a big change like that is necessary, but it's not a bad direction to go. For the sake of alleviating frustration though (and maybe even a small nerf), perhaps giving him a bit higher base HP or better HP growth at the cost of shield strength could be a way to go.

Issues I generally have with yasuo are mainly his inability to be meaningfully shut down in lane and his strange wind-wall hitbox. Minion-dashing puts him towards your tower, so battle mages are amazing against him. However, the real lack of armor items in mid-lane makes him annoying as a rule, since mages must sacrifice an item slot for a randuins.

Zielmann1 votes

Things can be balanced, but still pose an incredibly frustrating experience when playing against them. To me, yasuo is a prime example of this. He's extremely mobile, which can make skillshots hard enough to land as it is. But if his shield is up, unless that skillshot has CC on it that you'll be able to follow up on, then there's almost no point is wasting that cooldown just to break the shield. If his shield isn't up, he can just windwall instead. And that windwall will keep you from being able to throw anything at him for a while because it lasts pretty darn long. As long as he has minions around to dash to, he's essentially immune to slows (unlike, say, Kalista who gets a dash with every auto-attack but the dash itself is slower if she gets slowed). He's also proven to be one who can generally successfully use (or even abuse) whatever AD build is best at the time.

Each one of those things in and of themselves isn't really that big of a deal. But putting the whole package together just results in an incredibly frustrating experience for the team playing against the Yasuo. Even when he and whatever build is best at the time is actually balanced.

I don't think he's in direct need of nerfs, or necessarily lacking in counterplay for the most part. But I do think he could benefit from a minor rework that still gives him that outplay potential that people seem to love, while dialing back on the frustration of playing against him.

yay nibbers1 votes

I totally see what you're saying with frustration and don't necessarily disagree. I think a lot of the frustration is alleviated with experience, knowledge, and patience though. Personally I don't have much issue facing Yasuos but that's because I play him a lot and know how to deal with him. In lane, you can pop his shield with an auto attack easily enough if you're ranged (it's not too hard as melee but obviously a bit riskier) and his Windwall is pretty much a waiting game which I know can be annoying but it has a long cooldown that leaves him pretty open to poking.

A well done rework could be interesting.

Zielmann1 votes

I mainly am a support player, so you're right that I don't really see the one-on-one lane interaction with him all that much (though I will play mid as secondary so I have laned up against him). My biggest bias is actually a massive hatred for the duration of his windwall, and also that it seems to last until the particles fully fade away, which can be hard to see at times (I'd like it to fade faster). Having to wait 4 seconds to cast Nami ult during a teamfight is awful. What's worse, if even the smallest bit of the edge of that wave contacts the wind wall, the whole thing fades. That's a tilter, right there :P

yay nibbers1 votes

Ohh yes the infamous Nami wave-windwall interaction. I've always been a fan of the idea of making it fade a bit quicker, though most people on the Boards would rather see the ability deleted entirely or even Yasuo himself lol. I think it needs a short linger period to work effectively, but shaving a couple seconds off or even bringing it down to 1 second could probably help out a lot in the frustration department.

Zielmann1 votes

I think I'd be okay with it lasting up to maybe 2 seconds. It'll emphasize using it more strategically, as opposed to just creating a safe zone you can stay behind for 4 seconds.

Regarding Nami's ult, specifically, it would be cool if they could actually split the width of her ult into several individual segments, so that parts of it can be blocked by wind wall (or braum's shield), but the parts outside of the wall still continue on. This change alone would make me hate windwall a LOT less, even with the current duration.

ScissorsNstuff2 votes

{quoted}

So, if we give his stats a little buff, you'd accept losing one of his two passives? You can pick, both are strong.

it would take a lot more than a little buff to replace a shield as it would change his entire playpattern, particularly for when he is low on hp

Malfectious3 votes

Lol...I played a match a few days ago and Yasuo took 8 tower shots and still had more then half health...That shield tho...

ScissorsNstuff2 votes

{quoted}

Lol...I played a match a few days ago and Yasuo took 8 tower shots and still had more then half health...That shield tho...

I believe you're being misleading here

yay nibbers1 votes

No no I'm sure his anecdote is 100% accurate with all the details needed to show that Yasuo is actually a tank.

Malfectious1 votes

Nope...I was dead so I had time to watch and count as he ran around under two base turrets taking shots from both...

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

{quoted}

Nope...I was dead so I had time to watch and count as he ran around under two base turrets taking shots from both...

^^ i.e. you were being misleading lol

Meep Man2 votes

That's a bad example because Tryndamere has one of the highest health pools in the game for some reason. Also, majority of your reasons can apply to most other melee champions that aren't go in, get out. For example, Aatrox, Master Yi, Jax, Kled, etc. People hate Yasuo because his W is binary. You either get completely nullified or hit him for full impact.

Also, the stupid "special interaction" with his ultimate positioning himself outside turret range unlike every other ability similar to it. Yeah, screw that.

yay nibbers1 votes

I picked Tryndamere because he's one of the closest melee champs to Yasuo I could think of. Compare Yasuo to any melee champ though and he still usually has at least around 30-60 less base HP than them at level 1, not to mention less health regen.

YoungSirJ0ey1 votes

He's actually the lowest health melee champ at level 1, and third lowest at level 18, ahead of only Kassadin, who is Kassadin, and Sion, who gets extra health from CSing.

TheJakeinator1 votes

Yasuo is balanced in low elo. Every time i see him in Diamond i want to kill myself

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

yasuo's shield emulates evasion or partial evasion but doesn't dodge CC. Its basically a shitty version of what you see in MMOs but its great for league

yay nibbers1 votes

Personally I think it's really smart way to give a champion lower HP without making them too squishy, it gives him predictable highs and lows in lane where he's more or less squishy depending on how much Flow he has, but I can see why people would get frustrated with it.

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Windy Ronin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MkmXvAKv,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-04-13T17:45:51.372+0000)

Personally I think it's really smart way to give a champion lower HP without making them too squishy, it gives him predictable highs and lows in lane where he's more or less squishy depending on how much Flow he has, but I can see why people would get frustrated with it.

part of the reason ppl do bad against him is because they are too passive or are too prideful/afraid to be even more passive.

they also need to be able to strategize better

If yasuo builds item 3087 then the lane is going to push. Get mana instead of just AP and you will do better even if you cant kill him.

in teamfights screwing with yasuo can gimp his midgame. There's often no need to really directly fight him while you negate his power spike with other advantages. When his knockup is ready why not just back off as though gragas has his ult up to counterseige. Just do the same thing you do when viegar cage is up.

People have a lot of bad habits. Like when nidalee kills the minions... bronzies just sit there trying to look for a skillshot to land on her or just wander about aimlessly, challengers get ready to gank top or bot or they just back off.

yay nibbers1 votes

Dealing with Yasuo requires one to change how they play considerably from what they'd usually do against most matchups and I think we all know how most people react to change (generally not well).

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Windy Ronin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MkmXvAKv,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-13T18:28:08.098+0000)

Dealing with Yasuo requires one to change how they play considerably from what they'd usually do against most matchups and I think we all know how most people react to change (generally not well).

most people don't react to change at all lol

yay nibbers1 votes

That's true, most people are actually reasonable. Then there's the Boards...

Tahminatrix 1 votes

You do realize most of Yasuo `s stats come into play with his first purchase after back. Just looking at his base stats wont help when Yasuo has a double crit % rate and armor pen when critting.

yay nibbers1 votes

His low base stats are precisely why he gets those extra stats from passives though. If a champion doesn't do enough damage or CC before they die they're pretty much worthless, and doing either is much more dangerous and difficult when you have to get into melee range to do it.

Cubíx1 votes

I think the biggest issue with yasuo relates more to his builds nowadays. Like yes I understand what you're saying and I think most of his kit is understandable for his role, but when he gets away with building things like Phantom dancer or frozen mallet, etc. it turns him into a tankier fighter completely negating his once weaknesses. That's where the issue lies.

yay nibbers1 votes

I've thought about this too. Back when he built shiv because it was pretty much the only/best option for him and long before his relatively recent nerfs he sat just under 50% winrate and flew under most people's radar, nobody considerably less people were complaining about him then. Now that PD is as good for him as it is and Mallet is cheaper Yasuo can be tankier than he's ever been without losing too much DPS.

Cubíx1 votes

Exactly my point, I think his kit is, for the most part, in a good place. If anything would need change I think his E could use some tweaks. That said though its the items that are the problem, I dont think PD needs the damage reduction, it ends up feeling like Urgot's passive, out of place and not feeling very healthy. Truthfully if they change some of the items he uses Yasuo will end up feeling more balanced.

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