What if Yasuo's Wind Wall cost him his Flow?

yay nibbers·Sep 10, 2015·266 votes·8,851 views

Title. Just an idea. His shield, a defensive ability, expends his Flow when full. Why not have Wind Wall, another defensive ability, expend whatever Flow he currently has? This gives Yasuo a consequence to using it other than it going on cooldown. Maybe it'll even give him a bit of buffing room.

EDIT: I don't know where people are getting the idea that this is a Yasuo hate thread or something. I love Yasuo, he's one of my favorite champions. This is merely an idea that popped into my head after reading a couple recent threads about his Wind Wall, so I threw it out here onto the boards to start a discussion. I think it would be a fair change and gives Riot room to buff him. I agree that he's actually a bit underpowered right now but you all have to understand that there's reasons for that. One of the big factors being his Wind Wall being so useful seeing as it stops all projectiles for free. Yes, it does have a long cooldown, and again, there's a reason for that.

189 Comments

NahuiSep 10, 201586 votes

I think the duration would last as long as the amount of flow he used. At max flow it would grant his current 4 or so seconds. If he was at 25% flow obviously it would be 1 second. Just implement an equation based on the percent of flow he expends into seconds.

However with that they would probably buff his flow generation rate by a little as he moves to account for losing it upon casting the wall.

Edit: This would mean that no matter what flow he is at he could still instacast it to keep his trademark flashy skillshot outplays like absorbing a jinx rocket last second, even at like 3 flow it would last like .05 seconds, enough to save him no matter what flow he has. This keeps it from ever being a deadweight, useless skill.

RogueWillSep 10, 20155 votes

If that were to happen the total duration at 100 flow would have to be raised since you can't expect him to wall everytime at 100 flow.... I would say the total should be around 6 sec

NahuiSep 10, 20155 votes

{quoted}

If that were to happen the total duration at 100 flow would have to be raised since you can't expect him to wall everytime at 100 flow.... I would say the total should be around 6 sec

I don't know about that. 6 seconds is a long time. I think 4 would be fair, you have to use your shield to keep yourself unscathed to a skill that would probably take your shield anyways and hurt/cc you. Most yasuo wind walls aren't used for the whole 4 second duration, they're used as a reaction to stop an already approaching shot.

RogueWillSep 10, 20153 votes

That is mostly true during laning phase but not so much once the teamfights breaksout

NahuiSep 10, 20154 votes

{quoted}

That is mostly true during laning phase but not so much once the teamfights breaksout

True but 6 seconds would be obnoxious I team fights. I think 4 is a fair amount with full flow it encourages trying to dodge pokes instead of thinking "I can tank a poke and be fine, just gotta run around a little".

BladeglorySep 11, 20154 votes

They could also make it cost only a fraction of his current or max flow.

Example: Cost: Current flow, up to 50% of maximum. Duration: 1 second per 12.5% of maximum flow used. (Minimum 1)

This would make it so that Yasuo gets less effect if his shield has recently been used, but keeps him from always needing to blow (heh) an absurd amount of his shield on a wall with a decent duration.

As always, you can play around with values for balance. Up to 40% and 1s per 10% used also sounds good to me.

I like this whole idea as it gives Yasuo a decision at maximum flow. Do I stop the incoming projectiles outright, or can I let my shield absorb it and save my W for an emergency 2 seconds later?

yay nibbersSep 10, 201537 votes

I like that. Makes using it require a bit more skill, and it's already a pretty reactionary ability in the first place

Lotus BladeSep 10, 20152 votes

if this is to be done they would buff other stats but this is most likely not happening

alfavhunterSep 11, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captain Rand0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y2sLmrvs,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-10T15:00:55.139+0000)

I think the duration would last as long as the amount of flow he used. At max flow it would grant his current 4 or so seconds. If he was at 25% flow obviously it would be 1 second. Just implement an equation based on the percent of flow he expends into seconds.

However with that they would probably buff his flow generation rate by a little as he moves to account for losing it upon casting the wall.

Edit: This would mean that no matter what flow he is at he could still instacast it to keep his trademark flashy skillshot outplays like absorbing a jinx rocket last second, even at like 3 flow it would last like .05 seconds, enough to save him no matter what flow he has. This keeps it from ever being a deadweight, useless skill.

It should have a minimum duration of .5 seconds and per 25% flow it gains .88 second duration resulting in 4.02 seconds or make it one second per 25% resulting in it lasting 4.5 duration, a half second longer

Or they could have flow effect the Cd, per 25% used it will reduce the Cd by 10%, resulting in 80% CD-R on the ability of used at full flow with a CD-R of 40% already in place

This method might be a bit to much of a buff for him though, but could be changed to 5%cdr

There are many options, but what is the right one is hard to chose

Personally I do not think yas needs a buff, but that's my opinion

LankPantsSep 10, 201541 votes

What if Yasuo was actually designed with flow as a resource rather than a shield? I think that it would have lead to a far more interesting champ overall.

TacoTheKittenSep 10, 20157 votes

Omg yes that would be so cool, but the generation would need to be buffed massively

MegamanEXE79Sep 10, 20152 votes

This is probably true. And at that point, they may as well just rename it to Energy.

TurquoiseYoshiSep 11, 20152 votes

If Flow was used in an interesting way with all of his abilities, he doesn't need to be another energy champion. The way it interacted could be different and unique.

BlkGolemSep 11, 20155 votes

Actually this is pretty interesting. With the changes riot is making, flow could be a central part of Yasuo's kit instead of existing only as a free shield and as half of his passive. It's already pretty unique, and they really could do quite a lot to not change his playstyle too much but still have his kit changed enough and centered around flow instead of just the blanket things like double crit and no mana, etc. it could have varying levels with his flow and it would actually be a resource to manage.

TurquoiseYoshiSep 11, 20151 votes

Maybe his crit chances can revolve around it, so his crit chance isn't always 100% after 3 items.

Riot would probably have to increase Flow gain if they wanted to do this, but it would be amazing.

LeeDarkSep 11, 20154 votes

That's getting a little too close to Tryndamere's style. It still needs to be a different mechanic, not just the same mechanic with a different name.

UnlimitedNinja41Sep 10, 201531 votes

I main Yasuo and I have to agree this is a pretty good idea. Better than those QQ threads that his windwall shouldn't even exist. And it will give him SOME balance and a little counterplay to play around. And since his W is a 30 sec cd I think it would be a good trade tbh.

MazohistSep 10, 20154 votes

http://na.op.gg/summoner/champions/userName=unlimitedninja41

and with your 3 ranked games in bronze elo you would certainly know...

sit down son

DeynaTaggerungSep 10, 201521 votes

That's stupid. Just because he's not as good as you doesn't mean he doesn't understand how the champion works. The boards would be pretty boring if the only people who could talk were the elitist people in plat+ . People in lower elos may not be as great as playing the game(or more likely don't have time to put in 900 ranked games a year) but that doesn't make them any less intelligent and able discern good ideas.

It's also silly because he doesn't really play ranked and probably has a lot more games on yasuo playing normals. You'll also notice that his yasuo games are the best stats he has on any champ so it's obviously his best.

MazohistSep 10, 20155 votes

i just want to protect one of my favorite champions from an onslaught of horrible nerf ideas cause ppl are raging because a highly skilled player who put days in training wrecks them cause they didnt remember to take Jax or Irelia and wreck him with 0 counterplay.

AnidanSep 10, 201515 votes

If it's your main, then maybe try to propose an actual counter idea as opposed to shutting out discussion? Because this idea sounds pretty solid. You're trading one form of defense for another as the situation calls for them. It helps champions have less completely sucktastic laning experiences against him, since it isn't just Yasuo's experience that we're concerned with here.

If he goes mid then how many Jax's or Irelias are you seeing oppose you? Likely not many at all in all honesty. This isn't DotA: champion picks shouldn't pre-determine the outcome of the game (and even in DotA, nothing is set in stone by the champion choice alone).

HorrowSep 10, 20153 votes

{quoted}

If it's your main, then maybe try to propose an actual counter idea as opposed to shutting out discussion? Because this idea sounds pretty solid. You're trading one form of defense for another as the situation calls for them. It helps champions have less completely sucktastic laning experiences against him, since it isn't just Yasuo's experience that we're concerned with here.

If he goes mid then how many Jax's or Irelias are you seeing oppose you? Likely not many at all in all honesty. This isn't DotA: champion picks shouldn't pre-determine the outcome of the game (and even in DotA, nothing is set in stone by the champion choice alone).

What's stopping you from challenging him mid with Jax or Irelia then having a ranged champion top like Gnar or Liss?

AnidanSep 10, 20153 votes

For the most part: team composition and the needs of your own team simply for the desire of countering Yasuo alone. By doing this, Yasuo has significantly warped the game by his mere presence, and that is regarded as a very bad thing by both Riot and much of the playerbase.

Though, I'd support some pretty good buffs if this was to come to pass (it won't, let's be real here, but it is a neat thought exercise).

ßluęSep 10, 201515 votes

Yasuo's entire kit makes him a unique champion and mind you, he isn't even the strongest champion in the mid lane or top. There is so many posts about nerf yasuo or yasuo hate threads, meanwhile there's so many other better mid lane-top lane champions in the current meta (Azir, Ahri, Gnar)

Yasuos wind wall costing flow would make it awkward to play the champion because it would be like "using wind wall, wait.... I don't have flow shield anymore." (it's a pretty counterproductive cast because every time he uses wind-wall (alot) he expends flow shield)

And I will say it "Yasuo does not need nerfs, in fact, people struggle to use him or play against him (in low elo, solely because people don't know how to use or play against him)" It is really a fact that in "High Elo" (sorry for stereotyping but it's generally true) people are able to use him effectively or play against him because they understand how to beat him. In high elo you have an understanding of how to beat champions, people are even organized enough to wait out Gnar's mega then engage. Now imagine if Yasuo didn't have that survivability against a team ready to take him down the second he steps in. THIS, is the real reason why Yasuo is "Hard to master" besides the mechanics needed. Yasuo is a melee fighter/assassin who is supposed to be in the middle of fights, dishing out damage, which is why he sorta needs the flow shield plus wind wall.

Yasuo is a fair champion right now.

Windwall also has a high cooldown, I think 20 seconds, just bait it out. Flow, riot even said, tap Yasuo with an auto then re-engage in the how to play against Yasuo Bait out his tornado- Riot also said you bait this out because he is most vulnerable after cast. After he uses ULT, you can CC lock him

My conclusion: It's fair point when people really only look at him from a "low elo" point but from a perspective that understands how Yasuo should be play, whether against or with, (it really shouldn't be implemented).

I hope I got this right ^_^

YCitizenSnipsYSep 11, 20152 votes

That's actually pretty funny that you would list Azir and Gnar as better champions than Yasuo, Since Champion.gg shows that Yasuo is performing stronger than Gnar top lane, and Azir is currently garbage tire in the mid lane.

Honestly it doesn't matter how balanced and fair you make him sound, he's just like Le Blanc, Ekko, Kalista, and Lee Sin; people just don't like him regardless of how he's performing, and if your this sensitive to QQ I'd advise you stop using the boards because its not going anywhere.

ßluęSep 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

That's actually pretty funny that you would list Azir and Gnar as better champions than Yasuo, Since Champion.gg shows that Yasuo is performing stronger than Gnar top lane, and Azir is currently garbage tire in the mid lane.

Honestly it doesn't matter how balanced and fair you make him sound, he's just like Le Blanc, Ekko, Kalista, and Lee Sin; people just don't like him regardless of how he's performing, and if your this sensitive to QQ I'd advise you stop using the boards because its not going anywhere.

QQ? I just wanted to give an explanation on why Yasuo wasn't bad enough to get a nerf like that. :/ Azir and Gnar are top tier picks in LCS, LPL, etc. They are certainly stronger than Yasuo when used right.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 11, 20152 votes

This is why you don't comment on thing you don't understand. The LCS and LCK are all being played on patch 5.14, and the LPL was last played on 5.16, neither of which is the current live patch that those stats i quoted are from. Also who cares how good champs do in the LCS neither you nor I are playing in the LCS, or the 99% of players that are playing the game regularly.

I'll go ahead and repeat my self as well, give every explanation you want the QQ is not going to stop because people don't like the champion

ßluęSep 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

This is why you don't comment on thing you don't understand. The LCS and LCK are all being played on patch 5.14, and the LPL was last played on 5.16, neither of which is the current live patch that those stats i quoted are from. Also who cares how good champs do in the LCS neither you nor I are playing in the LCS, or the 99% of players that are playing the game regularly.

I'll go ahead and repeat my self as well, give every explanation you want the QQ is not going to stop because people don't like the champion

LCS and LPL may be played on patch 5.16 but the Yasuo nerfs were still implemented and changes nothing. Even with the Azir nerfs, I still think Azir will be a top tier pick because of his ability to control rights.

sigh I used LCS as an example because it's what happens when a champion is played RIGHT, at its fullest potential which is what we should really look at. Why do pros pick gnar and azir over Yasuo? Because Gnar and Azir are clearly better picks. They weighed pros and cons, stats and rewards and made the conclusion that Gnar and Azir are better than Yasuo. Players with far more experience than you or me. Forgive me but the QQ may not stop but giving an explanation is my choice, although it may be useless, because it will educate people. Most people don't even read Riot's counterplay on Yasuo or other champions. Therefore they do bad against them and is like "That champion is op", although there are clear ways to beat them.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 11, 20152 votes

The LCS is on patch 5.14. And on patch 5.16 during the LPL Azir was picked only twice and lost both games. It also doesn't do you any good to try to gauge the strength of champion from pro play since almost all the player base can't reproduce the results. Champion.gg only takes its data from plat + and even high elo players suck dick with Azir right now, face it neither he or Gnar are stronger than Yasuo, the numbers don't lie.

Also people complain about every champion they lose to, its part of the game. It's just champs like Yasuo are hated for more than someone lost to them, people just out right don't like him, win or lose, weak or strong. If this bothers you I can't help you with that but that how it is.

Arcana LancerSep 11, 20153 votes

The only reason he's not a top pick right now is because Riot has nerfed him so many times, since the moment his number makes him strong enough, he's insta-pick/ban tier, his kit right now is just overloaded with random bonuses thrown here and there, making him impossible to balance without breaking him.

Zero EngineSep 11, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Autrah FangSep 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

What? You contradicted yourself like 6 times there

He got nerfed a lot so hes NOT top pick, ie not pick/ban, but his numbers are high so he's pick/ban??? wtf?

Yasuo is weak because his numbers are bad. Not high rofl

His base stats are terrible.

not sure if he edited his post or not, but i got what he was trying to say perfectly. he's saying that Yasuo is not top pick cuz he was nerfed a lot by Riot, and if his numbers were high he would be pick/ban

that clear it up for you?

SpicaySep 10, 201513 votes

These "nerf Yasuo" threads are fucking hilarious.

He's literally in one of the worst periods of his existence. I've been playing him from the second he released and I'm close to 1k games played on him, and I barely even play him right now.

MinuanoSep 10, 201512 votes

Why are people still complaining for Yasuo nerfs >.>

yay nibbersSep 10, 201510 votes

No complaining here, this thread was actually inspired by those threads. :)

If anything I think Yasuo could use some buffs

[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y2sLmrvs,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-10T14:56:59.552+0000)

Maybe it'll even give him a bit of buffing room.

MinuanoSep 10, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y2sLmrvs,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2015-09-10T18:52:18.884+0000)

No complaining here, this thread was actually inspired by those threads. :)

If anything I think Yasuo could use some buffs

Eh, I think he's fine right now.

Beacon 0F LightSep 10, 20155 votes

I don't necessarily agree with Yasuo needing buffs, but he is right in saying he could use areas that would be easier to balance around. He currently doesn't have a lot you can balance effectively with just numbers.

SpicaySep 11, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y2sLmrvs,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2015-09-10T18:52:18.884+0000)

No complaining here, this thread was actually inspired by those threads. :)

If anything I think Yasuo could use some buffs

This nerf in exchange for "buffs" would be an awful trade-off.

Stop trying to hide it..this is a nerf Yasuo thread.

Schlachsahne76Sep 10, 201510 votes

No he doesnt need any nerfs.

JedenVojakSep 10, 20159 votes

It has like a 26 second cooldown on the first level of a skill he levels last - he most certainly does not need a nerf to his wind wall.

Considering that ranged champions get to freely harass and attack melee champions 90% of the time while melee champions are completely unable to attack them, that fact that ranged champions attacks can be canceled for a few seconds is not unfair.

Blue KaoziSep 10, 20158 votes

You would have to undo a lot of his previous nerfs for riot to do this. Specifically the HP nerfs. Honestly tho, I like it as an idea.

Ryot NomadSep 10, 20157 votes

That would make him damn near worthless. You are complaining from the perspective of someone who fought a yasuo instead of someone playing a yasuo.

Yasuo IMO is fine as he is. The reason he's probably rekking you is you're probably playing an immobile champion. That's kinda what yasuo was designed to do:kill immobile champions. Its' called counterpicking, pick a champion that is either mobile or is all about burst. Examples are Dianna, talon, zed, etc

Picking something like a xerath or a lux into a yasuo is most probably a lost lane since yasuo excels in these lanes.

KatCraftSep 10, 201517 votes

You know a champion has problems when your only tips to playing against him and his counter play is you chose the wrong champion.

DokiDokiTodorokiSep 10, 20155 votes

Pick an immobile champion into a hyper mobile assassin/carry and you've only fucked yourself over. It doesn't matter if a champion has weaknesses, you've denied yourself the champion identity to exploit those weaknesses and only given them more advantages.

In Yasuo's case, if you pick a champion that can effectively kite/has cc, it's a very fun game because now Yasuo is squishy and has no damage output. Or you play a champion that straight up beats him in 1v1's and laugh some more (assassins). Champion picks are very legitimate counter play.

TurquoiseYoshiSep 11, 20154 votes

And what do you do if he gets picked into you?

Getting a bad matchup is not a very viable counterplay method in Solo Queue, since Solo Queue's drafting is really unpredictable.

ßluęSep 10, 20157 votes

or...no?

ShahamutSep 10, 20155 votes

this would also require a big cooldown reduction on his wind wall. Which would be dangerous in my opinion.

MatezoideSep 10, 20155 votes

Of course, he would have to get a buff to compensate.

But you are right. It is silly. I hate how his ''resource'' is nothing more than a free shield he puts no thought into.

IGotScuttleCrabsSep 10, 20155 votes

I just made a post about this not noticing you also made one.

What if his windwall consumed his shield. Multiple ways it could go: •Consumes his shield but his shield generation can go up •Windwall last X amount of time depending on how much shield he has •Can give it an on/off effect to not full drain the shield with ~ten second cd in between

Sire HippingtonSep 10, 20155 votes

i don't think it's a agood idea, it would not add anything, besides saying you can't use your W right after going in+decreasing the flowgenration. it doesn't add to much meaningfull choice, as he would trade defense(shield/flow) for even more defence(windwall)...

It would feel reallly, really bad on yasuo without makeing it much better for playing vs him in most situations.

I'd prefer a nerf to the duration by far, i don't think it should be a superior zoneing tool, but rather a reactive defense...probably with less cd as compensation. or a passive flow generation on dashes as he had on release.

But most off all, i'd like to see a revert of all previous nerfs together with removing the crit from both Q and passive.