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Do you find the current Veigar fun?

Hakavay·3/18/2015, 8:21:44 PM·10 votes·1,847 views

Simple enough question: Is Veigar enjoyable to play in his current form? I've ranted plenty at my disdain for the Veigar rework so rather than focus on his relative power level in the game, I'm going to focus on how fun (or the lack thereof) he is to play.

Veigar Cast vote now so you aren't biased Veigar

My thoughts - I doubt it will surprise you that I've found most of the joy in playing Veigar gone. I can still get kills, still save the occasional teammate, still toss my ult, but the joy is just gone from these exchanges. For so many players the proper execution of your combo, the potential to 100-0, the ability to pull off that clutch play, these are what we celebrate. Since the Veigar rework, I just can't get that same rewarding play because you're stuck playing defensively the whole game and there is simply no way to control the outcome of your success. You can influence it, but not with with any true control.

Without a reliable stun, sure you might be able to poke with Q, you might land the occasional meteor (if your opponent fails), but outside of that you're left with relying 100% of your team to set up any kill. Sure, you can probably Flash > Ult + Q + Ignite and kill the occasional squishy champ but the rest of the time you are forced to run in fear until that magical moment when their brain turns off and they** let you ** stun them. Let's be clear, getting stunned is basically a choice for your opponent unless you are combo'ing with one of your teammates CC. Those moments, when once again you can do a proper Veigar combo, only serve to remind what we've lost and how gimped Veigar has become. As such, I can't even derive pleasure. I might get the satisfaction of the kill, but it is bittersweet and certainly leaning more heavily in the realm of bitter.

So for me, regardless of whether Veigar's win rate starts to level out or not, they've still reduced the fun aspect of the champion in my opinion.

Random: Watching the Patch 5.5 rundown was just painful / awkward as they circled the topics of both the botched Veigar rework and champ balance.

23 Comments

DrCyanide3/18/2015, 9:07:42 PM8 votes

I think the last game I played with Veigar I had two reactions:

  1. *Lines up enemy behind one minion for Q harass* Got ya! *Fires Q, only to have it stop half way to the champion* Oh....
  2. *Late game W actually manages to hit someone* Wow, that's a lot of damage. Wish there was a way to use that earlier in the game...

I was a bit of a Veigar noob, but before "compensation" I felt like I had control over my champion. If I missed a stun, that was on me. If I missed a W, it was because I was too far away from a stunned enemy or didn't have a long enough stun yet. If I died, it was because I was out of position or placed the stun in a bad spot.

Now it feels more like I've got to hope my opponent is a fool just to go even (for comparison, if my opponent is a fool while I'm on another champion I destroy them). I honestly feel like a glorified support who's allowed to KS, but I have more fun on most of my supports.

Maybe I just haven't given Veigar enough time with these changes, but he feels pretty horrible to me right now.

KidSpectre3/18/2015, 10:24:30 PM3 votes

I'm not gonna BS you. I'm not a dedicated Veigar main. I've played him a couple times, just enough to get a feel for him, and that's pretty much it. I HAVE, however, played AGAINST a lot of Veigars.

You lament for the joy you once had in 100-0'ing people and the control and reliability he once had. You know what I'm doing? Quietly thanking Riot from the bottom of my heart. You see, that reliability you so love--while admittedly very nice!--caused great stress for me. It felt like if I got within X distance of Veigar, I was in lethal danger. There was nothing I could do to dodge, avoid, or otherwise outplay a good Veigar. It boiled down to: Am I in range? If Yes--Eat tons of damage, possibly even getting two-shot post-6. If No--Whew! Guess I can safely farm and maybe trade. Works great if you outrange and poke Veigar, but not so much if you can't. And everytime Flash was up, that extended his "Kill Zone" even further.

What do I think of the Veigar changes? I think he's slightly under tuned. You can counter him now--you can actually avoid his damage if you are skilled enough! But he has more trouble than I think necessary landing some of that damage. That doesn't feel good for the Veigar player, obviously. At the same time, you don't want to go back to the unavoidable death radius either.

Kushmeyer23/19/2015, 1:02:16 AM3 votes

I don't play Veigar as much as I used to but I rarely lose with him, even after the patch. I definitely preferred him before though. I enjoyed the high risk high reward system he went by in the early game. It feels more like high risk little reward now.

His E relies on the enemy to not be retarded rather than the enemy being out of position/walking into it when ganking. His Q is slow. It isn't a guaranteed backline hit. Oh boy, more range, that gives it just enough time for 2 people to walk in front of the carry and block my Q. His W is the same! yay! Oh wait NOT yay, because it relies on E which is now unreliable and not based on my skill but the lack of skill from my opponent. At least R is still the same.

His kit before had perfect cohesion. Q for faming more damage. E>W for massive burst. R to show off the finishing blow on enemy AP in lane and AD/AP carries in lategame. His cohesion now is very messy. I don't use E>W as much. I use Q on the enemy. The one thing I've learned about new Veigar is that I can' rely on E>W for damage, I gotta harass with Q and get a kill with R and Ignite. I'll get gold but I won't get all the AP I'd like to farm up. It isn't as satisfying.

What I think would really bring Veigar back to fun for me is first making his W take 1 second to land and give it a small increase in range. Using his W for some hard prediction has always been fun, but 1.2 seconds + average range just makes that feel worthless. 1 second isn't undodgeable, but you can cast it in front of someone and they won't be able to just walk past. They have to either turn around, sit still, or tank it.

His Q could be a unique kind of point and click too. Not the undodgeable thing it was before, but a point and click with collision. You click something and the Q flies from you to it, hitting up to 2 things before disappearing. It's rewarding to Veigar to know his crazy short range nuke just went off, but at the same time it isn't a death sentence. Before it reaches the enemy it can be blocked just the same as the current iteration of Q was. Due to the homing mechanic it can even be blocked creatively by tanks/carries moving to block it as it makes a curve. This keeps Veigar's playstyle the same and puts he burden of countering on his enemies either by killing him outright due to short range or by blocking the spell.

On a different note, I hope they never touch his R enemy scaling. His R is what I love most about him. Veigar is not the best laner, but he goes mid and his R scales off enemy AP. This means if the enemy beats him in lane and is another AP mid Veigar has a chance to make a comeback. This is so, so important to him. His comeback relies on the enemy AP spending their money unwisely (no MR) but it's still a glimmer of hope for a champion like Veigar who is almost a waste of space when he does bad. His R can blow up a fed enemy AP and bring him back into the game.

tl;dr: Former Veigar had a lot of control, arguably too much. His current iteration has had too much control wrested from him though. I think that giving him more control over his Q/W while leaving the enemy free to counter each is what will make Veigar fun again. His E may have been his biggest smack to the face during changes, but it doesn't have to be the thing that changes to make him fun to play AND counterable.

Rinky Dinky3/18/2015, 10:40:31 PM2 votes

He would be fun if your w was still an ability lol

Titanium703/18/2015, 11:21:59 PM2 votes

ATM: Playing a good (new) Veigar feels like failing with the old one. x'D So, nope! No fun here. ^^

OK, new Q is funny, but pressing Q is basicly all you can do the first 20 minutes of the game, so that turns out to be quiet boring as well.

Chespin20133/18/2015, 11:30:18 PM2 votes

he would be fun if was back to his old self

CrazedPorcupine3/19/2015, 12:24:21 AM1 votes

considering I have a really good winrate with Viegar right now, i find it fun stomping on people who think he's weak, but his gameplay isn't really all that fun.

Typhoid Burrito3/19/2015, 4:31:19 AM1 votes

His Q change is a bonus to me in term of farm. His E is a loss but I literally just got done playing a game with him and if people are running away you still just put it in their path and most of the time they get stunned. I hope his PBE passive change sees live just because of how it will make his early game a little easier.

Solidair33/19/2015, 2:44:13 PM1 votes

I honestly do. I just want his Q to have a higher range, and perhaps some form of change to his W. It' still great for waveclear, but it's hard to use without his new harder to use E.

Still love him, though.

Curling Veigar3/18/2015, 8:32:13 PM1 votes

He's alright, I'm making him work. He definitely could use some tuning, though.

Meserion3/21/2015, 2:08:31 AM1 votes

I find him extremely fun, laughing manically out loud as I cause people to explode and then QQ in chat as I 1 shot their ADC with my ultimate. The tears of my enemies taste salty but sweet. With each Life I take I grow STRONGER. I am the dreaded reaper on the battlefield, they may mistake me for the devil-god teemo, but when the circle of doom appears, they know the true reaper has come to claim them all!

Stacona3/18/2015, 8:36:57 PM1 votes

I have been a long time Veigar main, and i love playing the little guy MORE post changes than pre changes- the Q range can be increased a little bit (which is happening next patch) and the inconsistent delay bug (sometimes longer than intended) which will be fixed--- but i do like the new veigar very much- but they didn't really change much about him besides make him better to play against slightly, but more rewarding as well playing as him

Very Hard Engage3/18/2015, 8:44:44 PM1 votes

veigar main here, veigar died entirely. hes no longer bursty, all of his skills lost sync with eachother. i can use this ability in this situation, i can use meteor to check bushes, i use Q for everything.

E has no utility in lane, i cant protect myself with it so it forces me to play back and farm heavy.

veigar is no longer fun for me because he just dies in lane, so easily.

EliteGunm4n3/18/2015, 8:58:58 PM1 votes

I dont play veigar but it seems to that his stun is still reasonable as long as you aren't always trying to instant stun them on the edge. Then they obviously have enough time to move off the wall. Champions without dashes should still not be able to move from the center to outside within the cast time.

BuCkeT SeiZureS3/18/2015, 11:25:02 PM1 votes

He needs work. He can get to the point that he will be good and rewarding, but he is not there.

4nth0l0gy3/19/2015, 12:22:46 AM1 votes

I have fun laughing at how bad he is?