The TRUE biggest loss to League in the last 4 years

Yordle Xayah·Nov 8, 2018·104 votes·19,479 views

Vision. I miss REAL Pink Wards. Those that would become invisible and would only be visible to other pink wards. I do miss warding wars, where positioning Pink Wards in the correct spots would result in outplays via vision and information. I miss being able to buy Green Wards that would actually last. I miss that interaction where you could extend the range of true vision of a Pink if you would put a green ward within the radius of the OG Pink. it led to some creative ways to detect invisible characters from ganking.

Trinkets feel butchered by this point. I miss real vision in League.

56 Comments

LovelleNov 8, 201823 votes

I miss Dominion. Nothing else has filled in the gap for me since its removal.

ŚhunpoNov 8, 201825 votes

Custom Hide and Seek [zombie-nunu-bummed]

TerozuNov 8, 20185 votes

Yeah fuck Dominion give me back Crustal Scar and let me play Hide and Seek and King of the Scar.

McsquzzyNov 8, 20181 votes

Me and my friends did a first to 100 kills game on Dominion

TheGr8WhiteDNov 8, 201823 votes

I miss real URF. ARURF is super unfun.

CeazaruNov 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I miss real URF. ARURF is super unfun.

I guess you like seeing infinite spin Garen every game.

PhlumphNov 8, 20182 votes

I still see infinite spin Garen every game. And he always wins. I prefer real URF because at least then I could pick good champions as opposed to it being like ARAM where one team gets a great selection and the other team just autoloses.

TheGr8WhiteDNov 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I guess you like seeing infinite spin Garen every game.

Well yeah. The fun of URF was playing extremely broken shit and playing against super broken shit. Its not fun when your team has garbage URF champions like Yasuo which dont really change, meanwhile the enemy has Garen is having a blast. Now I dont even play any ARURF at all.

BârdNov 8, 20185 votes

The First URF was fun.

After that people figured out all the OP shit, so having normal URF would either result in the same broken shit getting picked every game, or it would result in the devs actually having to seriously balance URF, which defeats the purpose.

TheGr8WhiteDNov 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The First URF was fun.

After that people figured out all the OP shit, so having normal URF would either result in the same broken shit getting picked every game, or it would result in the devs actually having to seriously balance URF, which defeats the purpose.

Hows that different from ranked? People just playing broken meta champions every game. There is zero reason to balance URF, just let it be a fun game mode people get to experience a different type of game. You cant be serious and tell me people are as hyped for ARURF as old URF.

Burns MasterNov 9, 20181 votes

My thoughts exactly.

Having a meta for a mode that was genuinely made for fun would suck all the fun about it and people would rage HARD. People jerk themselves angry about having no freedom to pick the broken picks in ARURF, but it doesn't make them impossible. I've had more people rq in URF than normal games anyways. ARURF makes it more unpredictable and more fun.

Pillar Of SaItNov 8, 20181 votes

Real URF was only fun for the first week or two

The experimentation and dicking around is what made it fun

I was actually one of the first people to discover garen's E stacking

I got more pentakills in one day than all other pentakills on all accounts across all seasons combined lmao

TheGr8WhiteDNov 8, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pillar Of SaIt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M1hEYha9,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2018-11-08T22:42:33.438+0000)

Real URF was only fun for the first week or two

The experimentation and dicking around is what made it fun

I was actually one of the first people to discover garen's E stacking

I got more pentakills in one day than all other pentakills on all accounts across all seasons combined lmao

In my opinion, I highly disagree. But of course youre entitled to your opinion of what is fun. In my opinion, URF is fun, and ARURF isnt worth playing. Also I see much, much less buzz about ARURF in general compared to when it was just URF, so based on that I believe that is a common sentiment. That could just be echo chambering, but impossible to know without playrate statistics.

McsquzzyNov 8, 201815 votes

Dog garen

Dfg garden. Stupid autocorrect, but I will keep it

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 8, 20184 votes

Not even bush spook Garen?

(I hate autocorrect too, sometimes it's stubborn to the nth degree)

Mafia LeBlancNov 8, 20181 votes

You made me think of a dog garden where you grow puppies from seeds

FridgeDNov 8, 201811 votes

heavily disagree. with the old vision system, the winning team could simply light up the enemy jungle. if you had priority in your lane you could simply sweep every enemy ward on half of the map and and place your wards.

the vision changes meant the death of bitch support, someone who had legit 1 job. buy no items but wards and spam it on the map. super unfun and unbalanced. typical win more playstyle.

im really happy with the trinkets.

KaishaNov 8, 20182 votes

Except that support was never given another job. They're just there... filling up space. With items being stupid OP you'll never supply the dps, healing, or tanking, needed to make any difference in the outcome of the game. CC is pretty much the only thing you bring, and because you have to be exceptionally cautious (cause any carry can delete you simply by looking at you funny) even that take tremendous skill to land.

PhlumphNov 8, 20181 votes

Hi my name is AP Sona and I have to disagree. Give me 2 items and I’ll delete any of their bitchass carries except an assassin.

manbearswineNov 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Except that support was never given another job. They're just there... filling up space.

Well, all of the roles sorta do that. I do somewhat agree with your point, supports used to have something which really was meaningfully unique to them(the ward wars) and now they mostly alternate between a watered-down mid laner or a watered-down jungler.

Mind you the ward wars were exceptionally shallow and mostly snowball based if the teams were any good, and possibly even worse if they weren't. Removing them did more good than harm.

KaishaNov 8, 20181 votes

I don't disagree... I didn't like the ward wars. I always liked support because I could focus more on the opposing team than last hitting minions (one of the stupidest mechanics around IMO).

But supports are useless now. AP supports do no dmg, even the heavy harassers like Zyra, Vel, or Brand might do a bit of dmg in lane, but lifesteal and runes now mean a single wave and any carry can top themselves up no problem. Tank supports are limited pretty much to Ali now, anyone else (Naut, Tahm, etc...) are so stupid squishy they evaporate instantly. Sure pyke is around but he's just stupid OP. Blitz is weaksauce now, landing a grip now means instadeath for you, not the opponent; his wombo combo is now a tickle combo. Healing supports can't stand up to the burst. Soraka is a joke, sona went from OP pretty much S1-S4 (when I stopped playing till recently) to a free kill (I saw her once the entire two weeks I reinstalled).

But what was by far the most disheartening was that no matter how well I played, my contributions didn't have any tangible effect on the game outcome. Time after time we'd own bottom lane, be 2-3 kills up, and top or mid would feed an assasin 2-3 kills, and then Yasuo, or Yi, or Zed, or Akali, or Talon would then start running around just deleteing people and that was it. It didn't matter how many skill shots I landed, how much CC I provided, there was no counter to a fed assassin/hypercarry. And where-as previously (S1-S4) you had to get around 5+ kills ahead to be 'fed', now 2-3 was sufficient. 1 bad jungle gank and it was game over 6min in, no matter how well I played.

They could remove support from the game, just make Summoners Rift 4v4, and no one would notice a difference. They bring nothing unique, interesting, or useful to the game anymore.

manbearswineNov 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I don't disagree... I didn't like the ward wars.

I don't think anyone really did, it's just nostalgia goggles at this point(well that and people who just enjoy complaining).

I always liked support because I could focus more on the opposing team than last hitting minions (one of the stupidest mechanics around IMO).

I'm not sure why you find it stupid, it's an objective, otherwise people would just sit around dragon the entire early game then afk till it respawns, and then move from dragon to baron.

But supports are useless now. AP supports do no dmg, even the heavy harassers like Zyra, Vel, or Brand might do a bit of dmg in lane, but lifesteal and runes now mean a single wave and any carry can top themselves up no problem. Tank supports are limited pretty much to Ali now, anyone else (Naut, Tahm, etc...) are so stupid squishy they evaporate instantly. Sure pyke is around but he's just stupid OP. Blitz is weaksauce now, landing a grip now means instadeath for you, not the opponent; his wombo combo is now a tickle combo. Healing supports can't stand up to the burst. Soraka is a joke, sona went from OP pretty much S1-S4 (when I stopped playing till recently) to a free kill (I saw her once the entire two weeks I reinstalled).

But what was by far the most disheartening was that no matter how well I played, my contributions didn't have any tangible effect on the game outcome. Time after time we'd own bottom lane, be 2-3 kills up, and top or mid would feed an assasin 2-3 kills, and then Yasuo, or Yi, or Zed, or Akali, or Talon would then start running around just deleteing people and that was it. It didn't matter how many skill shots I landed, how much CC I provided, there was no counter to a fed assassin/hypercarry. And where-as previously (S1-S4) you had to get around 5+ kills ahead to be 'fed', now 2-3 was sufficient. 1 bad jungle gank and it was game over 6min in, no matter how well I played.

They could remove support from the game, just make Summoners Rift 4v4, and no one would notice a difference. They bring nothing unique, interesting, or useful to the game anymore.

I wouldn't know, I stopped playing when I realized they are making the game more and more reflex based, shoving obnoxious amounts of mobility/invulnerability senselessly.

KaishaNov 8, 20181 votes

There's more to MOBAs than just last-hitting minions. If you played the original ones you would see there a plenty of things to do apart from that. If you ever played, say, Tides Of Blood, that one was pretty amazing (LOL also copied about 1/2 their roster: bloodmage = vlad, redbull = ali, pirate = gangplank, etc...).

The stand around last-hitting was pretty much a DOTA thing, because the DOTA players were just crappy. Anyone who was good at WC3/TFT was playing ranked at the time. DOTA was popular with players who couldn't handle 3 heros + army and needed an AI to help them. The massive item scaling was necessary because requiring actual skill/strategy/teamwork was too much for the average DOTA player to handle.

LOL added jungling (which technically DOTA had but it was a mess) which added a lot of depth and teamwork that didn't exist, and in the early seasons the items weren't as crazy as their DOTA counterparts (though power creep has worked in over the seasons...).

But last-hitting minions is certainly not a necessity to make a good MOBA. Its a crutch IMO.

manbearswineNov 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

There's more to MOBAs than just last-hitting minions. If you played the original ones you would see there a plenty of things to do apart from that. If you ever played, say, Tides Of Blood, that one was pretty amazing (LOL also copied about 1/2 their roster: bloodmage = vlad, redbull = ali, pirate = gangplank, etc...).

I mean let's be serious, the concepts of a bloodmage, a minotaur, or a bloody pirate aren't really unique in their own right. They didn't really copy them anymore than probably thousands of other games at this point copied them.

The stand around last-hitting was pretty much a DOTA thing, because the DOTA players were just crappy. Anyone who was good at WC3/TFT was playing ranked at the time. DOTA was popular with players who couldn't handle 3 heros + army and needed an AI to help them. The massive item scaling was necessary because requiring actual skill/strategy/teamwork was too much for the average DOTA player to handle.

I don't see what item scaling has to do with this. I could see the DOTA players as being more casual than those that played ranked, but what does that have to do with item scalings?

LOL added jungling (which technically DOTA had but it was a mess) which added a lot of depth and teamwork that didn't exist, and in the early seasons the items weren't as crazy as their DOTA counterparts (though power creep has worked in over the seasons...).

I'm really not sure what power creep is even meant to say in that sentence. Original powercreep was/is a case where older releases are being invalidated by newer ones, are you saying new items are invalidating older ones? Are you saying that items carry too much weight and define the champions too much?

But last-hitting minions is certainly not a necessity to make a good MOBA. Its a crutch IMO.

It's not necessary, but it's one way, I wouldn't call it a crutch either, as I don't see any novel approach clearly outshining it.

KaishaNov 10, 20181 votes

Have you actually played anything but DOTA/LOL or one of their thousand clones?

manbearswineNov 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Have you actually played anything but DOTA/LOL or one of their thousand clones?

Obviously, unless you define every game out there as a dota/lol clone.

doiminat0r3600Nov 9, 20183 votes

Back in Season 5, this was not a thing lol.

With the ward changes, specifically to how they recharged, back in season 5/6, the warding was everyone's job. Supports couldn't ward anything.

Even now, the support has options to get wards + another trinket with support items. But back when I stopped playing (primarily a support player), most players didn't even care if I wasn't warding. I generally did a good job at that myself, being a support and actually supporting the team. You shouldn't be doing anything as a support except assisting your team in surviving or getting kills. That includes warding.

This shouldn't be looked at as a bad thing either. Warding is rewarding (get it?) in itself. TBH, you shouldn't be playing support unless you find joy in helping to make plays and keeping people alive.

CronofugeNov 8, 20188 votes

As somebody who played support in solo queue until role selection was a thing, I do NOT miss pouring a shit load of money into ward wars.

ModCaptainMårvelousNov 8, 20182 votes

{quoted}

As somebody who played support in solo queue until role selection was a thing, I do NOT miss pouring a shit load of money into ward wars.

What!?

You mean you don't miss boots + four stacks of five wards? Back when the game was more skillful and the correct strategy was to shit out wards in every dark corner of the map like you were trying to beat a "explore 100% of the map" achievement?

KaishaNov 8, 20184 votes

It was better than what we have now. Now you're just... there... doing nothing. Since items are so OP you contribute nothing in terms of damage, healing, or tanking.

In S3 I was constantly playing Brand support (I never saw a single person do it before I did it) all the way up in diamond or plat or somewhere in there (I forget) and constantly topping the dmg meter and picking up huge numbers of kills. I could easily carry from support.

Now in support, even if I play amazing, I'm completely outclassed by hypercarries 1-2 items ahead that can delete me with simply a right click. And now with zero vision options for the 1st half the game I'm supposed to face check? All that ends up happening is you never leave your lane/turret. Its boring and your contribution means nothing in the outcome of the game.

BârdNov 8, 20182 votes

S1/S2 vision was a problem because supports had to spend all their money on it.

Season 3 fixed that somewhat with sightstone, so supports could have some money to their name, but gold-independent champions like Janna could still choose to prioritize wards.

Season 4 was also good. The ward cap is annoying, but trinkets were a lot better (pink ward trinket Kreygasm), junglers had vision options (RIP Quill Coat), gold gen for supports was improved, and you could still buy wards.

ŚhunpoNov 8, 20187 votes

Akali : Ay yo fuck yo vision bitch boi!

meowwow7Nov 8, 20185 votes

yeah good old days of starting a pink chain from your blue and have it all the way through river when the enemy had evelynn or shaco was comical

Ice Weasel XNov 8, 20185 votes

{quoted}

I do miss warding wars

Holy fuck, I remember supporting in late 2013 and literally being unable to buy anything but Sightstone all through laning phase because the enemy support and I were spending all our gold on counterwarding each other in the botlane bushes. We just ignored harassing each others' ADCs and spent 10 minutes or so destroying green and pink wards.

BârdNov 8, 20181 votes

I remember levelling up my account.

I mained Zilean top/support.

When I went support, I bought Zekes Herald and WOTA (Hey, if I revive myself I can keep these auras on my teammates longer!).

I also didn't buy wards or health potions. I was bronze back then. Good times.

Smokin PenguinNov 8, 20184 votes

Oh yeah i miss having my base being lit up like a christmas tree when someone decides to sell all of their items an just buy wards to put in the fountain...

Fargo79Nov 8, 20184 votes

Remember when it took skill as a jungler to know jungle camp and objective camps spawn timers?? now its all done for u with a tap of the tab button or u see it on your mini map preparing to spawn.. maybe they need to bring back draft order based on ELO/MMR.. i normally was last pick which meant support. lol. bring back Force of Nature, Madreds Blood razor, DFG, Boots enhancements, Clarity, Clairvoyance, Revive,.. Revert Karma back to her old OP state.. revert the entire game back to season 3-4.. only new thing i want is Morg to get a passive that actually works..

SalronNov 8, 20183 votes

Yeah removing buyable green wards was the worst change riot has ever made imo

Masaka Guédé Nov 8, 20183 votes

I miss ward wars :/ I'd go gragas support back before trinket was a thing and get swiftness boots and full invo of wards an ward every damn bush on the map and run around with the enemy changing me but never catching up. vision was much better back then than it is now. :/

MorganFreemanBotNov 8, 20183 votes

Holy shit, no.

Stealth pink wards were dumb. They exacerbated snowball in a hard to perceive, but insanely powerful, way.

Costing more gold meant that it severely punished the team which was behind, further delaying their items to try and compete in the vision war. It also led to an arms race where the team which was behind, and struggling, would have to contest vision; which led to them losing more fights, and getting farther behind.

If you think that current league is too snowbally, take off the rose-colored glasses and remember what stealth pinks were ACTUALLY like.

Judah BotNov 9, 20183 votes

I like to see an RGM that was just Summoners Rift: 7.15 or something like that, complete with the appropriate rune selection, available summs, etc... basically RGM : Time Machine , with different versions picked....

jocomotionNov 9, 20182 votes

I admit I do miss having invisible pink wards, but at the same time I’m happy with how riot implemented stealth’s interaction with control wards. (Minus Akali)

Great now I’m just conflicted.

ZerglingOneNov 9, 20182 votes

I remember my whole team buying 2 stacks of wards when we were ahead and we covered the entire map. My friend Kim just said over Skype "this feels like cheating"

It was fun, but also had issues of its own.

ModWuksNov 8, 20181 votes

I miss Alacrity boot enchantments and 10 minute Teemo mushrooms :(

Ice Weasel XNov 8, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I miss Alacrity boot enchantments and 10 minute mushrooms :(

10 minute 80% AP Teemo mushrooms

ValyrianBladeNov 8, 20181 votes

When could pink wards go invisible? Not in the last 4 years... I've played for 4 and a half years (since Braum), and that whole time pink wards were always visible.

UvecNov 8, 20184 votes

They changed them in preseason 4, before that they were just like regular wards (invisible, 3 minutes duration) and the only way to reveal them was by placing a pink or using item 2013 , while it still existed on SR .