Can we nerf Riven?

waterdiva·Jun 9, 2017·15 votes·4,485 views

She has too many mobility and crowd control skills, and a shield that scales off AD. She shouldn't need that much movement, crowd control, a shield, then an AOE Ult.

35 Comments

RipMaNibbaRakanSep 9, 20174 votes

Lets be real, her real counters are gone. Why shouldn't she be nerved? Because she is skillbased? Laugh my butt of, every champion is skill based.

Script KiteMay 5, 20181 votes

But every champion doesn’t take extensive amounts of time to be considered mediocre. (Sorry for the 8 month later respond) Also Garren is considered a Champ so the last statement is false

BoxerVictorJun 24, 20172 votes

Yeah , she's retarded now , luckily many suck on her , fanbois disliked your post , upvoted

Eternal TormentJun 9, 20171 votes

nerf a champion who's power is entirely defined by the player's capability to use it? heck no.

riven as a champion is actually very weak, she has really low base damages, at-best-mediocre stats for someone who heavily depends on Snowballing, aka all-Outs and hard pressures, and her defensive ability doesn't scale with anything other than ad entirely. riven unlike most toplaners is incapable of building even one tanky item, she Needs full ad to Keep scaling. that is why armor is so goddamn effective against her. her damage depends on being able to use her skills, her Efficiency depends on her early game entirely, she has not a single percentage based damage tool in her entire kit, she has no executes, no "real" burst either, and her shield is only active for a single second. it is with miles lead the SHORTEST and WEAKEST defensive Skill durationwise in ALL of league.

waterdivaJun 9, 20178 votes

She has too many dashes, she has 2 ccs. That isn't fair at all.

Eternal TormentJun 9, 20171 votes

2 CC with very small range AND proc range, which both require you to go balls deep to land them

waterdivaJun 9, 20178 votes

She still has too many mobility skills which shouldn't be right.

Eternal TormentJun 9, 20172 votes

no, her mobility is alright, it is highly dependant on her performance and mind me out of 4 dashes only her 3rd Q can go over ANY obstacles, her mobility is nothing compared to champs like renek or gragas who can go through even the thick walls

eatsritoSep 17, 20171 votes

[deleted]

Eternal TormentSep 17, 20171 votes

you stalked me through 3 months of comments and Posts just to downvote stalk me for this?

dude....this is creepy...get some help. im reporting you.

Automated RivenJun 9, 20171 votes

Its actually 1.5 seconds. but otherwise well put.

Eternal TormentJun 9, 20172 votes

well, that half second still makes it the shortest shield ingame (assuming you count yasuo's activated passive shields)

PermabannedGarenJun 10, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LAUbpEB7,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-06-09T17:43:33.072+0000)

Its actually 1.5 seconds. but otherwise well put.

It wasn't well put.

Responding to idiotic garbage with idiotic garbage in the opposite direction isn't admirable.

"Dude Riven has no burst cause she has to animation cancel autos to burst and she's weak because she's hard" lmao.

Automated RivenJun 10, 20171 votes

riven is fine at the moment but OP items right now deaths dance are pushing her and other champions who use it well into strong territory. I didnt see the part about her supposed lack of burst when I responded. Your correct. Riven is very very capable of outputing some very decent burst. -_- My bad for not seeing that in my original reply.

That being said. Rivens burst is rather low end for burst. If a champion gets so much as 1 health item riven i usually incapable of flat out one shotting them unless she is pretty far ahead. On even terms her burst pattern is typically over 1-2 seconds until 5-6 items where she can legit 1 shot people.

PermabannedGarenJun 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LAUbpEB7,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2017-06-10T05:44:50.634+0000)

riven is fine at the moment but OP items right now deaths dance are pushing her and other champions who use it well into strong territory. I didnt see the part about her supposed lack of burst when I responded. Your correct. Riven is very very capable of outputing some very decent burst. -_- My bad for not seeing that in my original reply.

That being said. Rivens burst is rather low end for burst. If a champion gets so much as 1 health item riven i usually incapable of flat out one shotting them unless she is pretty far ahead. On even terms her burst pattern is typically over 1-2 seconds until 5-6 items where she can legit 1 shot people.

I have no issues with Riven and, even though she is very strong right now, I don't particularly want her nerfed. I'm fine with Riven.

I'm not fine with people who heavily downplay their champion's strength in response to criticism. Even I as a Yasuo main do not go as far as to pretend that he is weak, like homeboy seemed to be doing, even when I defend him.

And yes, her burst is only high compared to other skirmishers. The only other skirmisher whose burst against squishies exceeds Riven's is probably a six-item Tryndamere and a crit Yi. That's one of her niches among her class. Though she still has solid DPS she is mainly defined by her impressive one-shot potential compared to her peers throughout the game.

Automated RivenJun 10, 20171 votes

Ya .. I just read the comment and came back to it an hour later to respond. didnt remember everything in there.

PennsJun 9, 20177 votes

She has no burst and no executes? And her 1.5 second shield also has like 3.5 seconds cooldown at rank 5 lel.

Eternal TormentJun 9, 20171 votes

she has no real burst, she can still 100/0 someone but not in your typical every day kinda motion, she Needs to reset a lot and time her abilities perfectly to do so, combining her passively empowered AA.

no executes, yes you heard me. she has no 100/0 one-skill technique nor any precentage max hp or missing hp scalings, meaning she can't press one button and boom someone is dead.

PennsJun 9, 20174 votes

So because she is hard to play and needs to press e r q auto w ult or some other combo, she doesnt have real burst? Then what is "real" burst? Because a good Riven has some of the highest dmg bursts in the game. And her ult is an execute. It doesnt actually do %hp dmg but its still an execute.

Eternal TormentJun 9, 20171 votes

false for multiple reasons:

riven's burst unlike most other champions actually Comes from her AAs and not from her skills, her skills do Little damage until late. most of her damage Comes from her auto attacks, believe it or not.

and her ult is not an execute, sure, the damage gets up higher the less hp someone has BUT IT IS CAPPED, meaning the highest possible damage output could still fail to kill someone. an execute for example is elise's spider form Q, lee sins 2nd Q, garens ultimate etc. Things that are a "finisher" so to speak.

riven's ultimate is not an execute therefore. infact, most riven Players actually use it as an initiation if you watch montages well. rarely will you see an riven otp use an ult for the last hit until it just Comes in Handy that way

PennsJun 9, 20173 votes

So.. auto attacks cant be burst? Old Rengar had insane burst yet his only damage spells that arent auto attacks are his 0 dmg W and his like 200 dmg E.

Her ult is an execute, no Riven is ever gonna initiate with her wind slash unless the kill is free anyway lol. It does triple damage at >25% hp

Eternal TormentJun 9, 20172 votes

okay, A, stop putting words into my mouth ok? i get you cannot handle being wrong, ego is a Thing in the boards, but do NOT twist my words for the love of potato and Jesus.

and second of all, just because the base damage gets higher the less hp someone has does NOT make it an execute, as i said, even her maximum damage can utterly fail to kill someone.

and if you think a riven won't initiate with an ult, then i introduce you to the 2 world's most well known and highest skilled riven mains, boxbox and exil.

watch some of their games, look up the resets and combos necessary, and you will know just how wrong and biased you are. the "riven is so op" is a typical bronze-speech, so to say. riven of all the 130+ champions is the one champions who's power entirely depends on the Player using her. she has NO natural scaling, nothing to support her early harrass, which ironically she really Needs, and no, her ult is not an execute. executes are finisher moves scaling infinetly with the Targets missing health. garens ultimate and lee sin's second Q as 2 examples.

just because something resembles something won't make them the same. assuming your logic i could say sion's and chogath's hp stacking is literally the same despite the fact it isn't, it only resembles one another.

and about the rengar comment, his damage came from spellcast-empowered AA, that is an different story than natural, normal AA. riven's passive is nothing more than a scaling free sheen, it makes your AA stronger, but it is no spellcast-empowering of any sorts. it is a trigger caused by a spell. rengar and riven are different in the core Elements of that basic definity.

PennsJun 9, 20175 votes

Lolwiki says "execute" means https://i.gyazo.com/0f9e01cadf049b3b672da5a9b95b0e99.png . Saying Riven ult isnt an execute is like saying "Annie didnt oneshot you, she used 3 spells at the same time", or "overpowered and broken dont mean the same thing in League"... makes no sense.

Riven initiates by activating her ult, no Riven should initiate with her Wind Slash ever.

And "Riven is op" isnt a bronze-speech when she is objectively op this patch because of DD and GA changes.

Eternal TormentJun 9, 20171 votes

not by a mile, and the lolwiki is purely fanmande you are Aware of that right? for all we know you could have gone and went that change while we spoke, while it is good for gathering stats and number infos, it is unreliable as hell for detailed information like that. it is "an execute" by the mental position it holds in the community because people think. "oh damage goes up when hp goes down, save it as my last spell". you will almost never see a riven finish someone with her wind slash past 15 minutes into the game. windslash has a lot of reset capabilities and can be of much greater use if spared to cancel out your Q dashes, mainly the 2nd dash.

and riven really is not op, her being such is indeed just something people say so they can have something to blame the new GA on. riven has always been the prime target for shaming ad item changes. deaths dance may be strong but on a riven you still won't see it as any item rush Prior to the 3rd one, excluding boots that is.

take it or deny it, your choice, but riven has a steady spot as of now. the one champ that is going crazy with the DD and GA changes is draven. while yes riven profits from the new changes a lot, it is not even nearly enough to make her worthy of a nerf.

if you got flat out fucked by a riven, you can assume that this Player just was a really good riven.

PennsJun 9, 20173 votes

Yeah so it is an execute because it does more damage against low hp targets, thats literally the definition of "execute", even if it stops scaling at 25%.

Being one of the hardest champs doesnt make her balanced. Fiora is getting nerfed, then Riven is pretty much gonna be the only god tier top laner with Kled maybe.

Automated RivenJun 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Click R for Win,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LAUbpEB7,comment-id=000000020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-09T20:30:43.892+0000)

not by a mile, and the lolwiki is purely fanmande you are Aware of that right? for all we know you could have gone and went that change while we spoke, while it is good for gathering stats and number infos, it is unreliable as hell for detailed information like that. it is "an execute" by the mental position it holds in the community because people think. "oh damage goes up when hp goes down, save it as my last spell". you will almost never see a riven finish someone with her wind slash past 15 minutes into the game. windslash has a lot of reset capabilities and can be of much greater use if spared to cancel out your Q dashes, mainly the 2nd dash.

Rivens ult is not an execute per se. but calling it an execute is not exactly wrong. I am not sure what you mean about rivens ult having reset capabilities. Her ult does not reset at all. And good rivens use her ult as an execute almost all the time. THe only time it isnt used as an execute is if she is running out of cooldown and using it for damage. If she is low and its the only way she can contribute to the fight meaningfully. And finally if its part of a combo designed for bursting a squishy. Even so the ult is used late into the combo. Typically paired with Q2

and riven really is not op, her being such is indeed just something people say so they can have something to blame the new GA on. riven has always been the prime target for shaming ad item changes. deaths dance may be strong but on a riven you still won't see it as any item rush Prior to the 3rd one, excluding boots that is.

Riven is not OP imho, Deaths dance is. And deaths dance is the first/second items you get on her every game. It is not a 3rd item rush. Its a buy as soon as you get black cleaver so you can shred your opponents armor.

take it or deny it, your choice, but riven has a steady spot as of now. the one champ that is going crazy with the DD and GA changes is draven. while yes riven profits from the new changes a lot, it is not even nearly enough to make her worthy of a nerf.

I agree that riven should not be nerfed. I would much rather deaths dance and GA be looked at.

if you got flat out fucked by a riven, you can assume that this Player just was a really good riven.

Probably true.

guygoestothestorNov 27, 20181 votes

Its 4.6 seconds and by that time ur probably already dead

ScóliasJun 10, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Click R for Win,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LAUbpEB7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-09T17:37:36.383+0000)

nerf a champion who's power is entirely defined by the player's capability to use it? heck no.

riven as a champion is actually very weak, she has really low base damages, at-best-mediocre stats for someone who heavily depends on Snowballing, aka all-Outs and hard pressures, and her defensive ability doesn't scale with anything other than ad entirely. riven unlike most toplaners is incapable of building even one tanky item, she Needs full ad to Keep scaling. that is why armor is so goddamn effective against her. her damage depends on being able to use her skills, her Efficiency depends on her early game entirely, she has not a single percentage based damage tool in her entire kit, she has no executes, no "real" burst either, and her shield is only active for a single second. it is with miles lead the SHORTEST and WEAKEST defensive Skill durationwise in ALL of league.

15% playrate and 52% winrate. No, she's not weak, at all. For a "difficult" champion those stats are way to good. She needs the nerf bat.

Eternal TormentJun 10, 20172 votes

same issues as Katarina and lb currently with gunblade. riven is only rising up due to itemchanges, so instead of gutting her, nerf the source of the Problem. nerf the item. riven as a champion is weak, as my original post states with the reasoning why.

do people never try to think about just why she is nearly never touched at all?

Automated RivenJun 10, 20171 votes

Riven as a champion is only weak if you cant play her properly. She is completely fine as a champion if you have the basics of her kit down.

Eternal TormentJun 10, 20171 votes

i know, that was my original message. she is just seeing recent uprising due to growing benefit, but as stated it is really not enough to make her Need a nerf.

ImainleblancguysOct 7, 20172 votes

you dont nerf an item to suit a champion's needs, you nerf a champion to balance the item's potential, using your logic means riot will have to fix every champion using the same items that riven uses, instead of the champion they should balance

Noxian PrideJun 10, 20171 votes

I agree with you entirely that Riven is a very weak champion that relies entirely on the capabilities of her user (And in no need of nerfs), but I'd just like to point out that technically her R2 is an execute with a hardcap at 25% hp.

ImainleblancguysOct 7, 20171 votes

since when do we measure a champion's kit power with unskilled players? What is wrong with you people lol

ImainleblancguysOct 7, 20172 votes

I stopped reading at "very weak" ... the dash/shield that scales off AD!! every 2 seconds, is not "very weak"