Riot, you removed Spell Vamp for balance I guess. How is high damage items like Bloodthirster having 20% life steal & stackable with other Life Steal effects balanced? Shouldn't Life Steal be limited as Unique or capped at a decent but low threshold? It's not hard to see ADC's with 45% lifesteal & that's in items, not counting what can be obtained from talent build. Am I wrong here, input please.
Wildstyle3 votesYou make a good point, I've never even thought about a cap being put on lifesteal but i agree with you in that it needs to be done.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesok so how is lifesteal applied?
its a % of damage returned upon doing physical damage via empowered autos or auto attacks ?
how do you negate physical damage ?
so if you get ARMOR which REDUCES THE PHYSICAL DAMAGE YOU TAKE therefore IT REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF LIFESTEAL THE CHAMP GETS BACK
Dark Nephthys1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KypyAhcY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-02T00:53:56.034+0000)
ok so how is lifesteal applied?
its a % of damage returned upon doing physical damage via empowered autos or auto attacks ?
how do you negate physical damage ?
so if you get ARMOR which REDUCES THE PHYSICAL DAMAGE YOU TAKE therefore IT REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF LIFESTEAL THE CHAMP GETS BACK
Yes because every champion is suppose to build a lot of armor...
I normally wouldn't have any problem with Lifesteal but it really is stupid how Riot removed spell vamp (other than technically 
) but they completely ignore and even embrace life steal even though life steal isn't gated by Cool Downs or Mana, and there was only 1 actual spell vamp item compared to the large amounts of life steal options...hell they even got a keystone as well.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesANY ARMOR REDUCES LIFE STEAL
the scaling armor you champ gets per lvl, the 9 armor u take in runes and any fukin armor item you get in game
Dark Nephthys1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KypyAhcY,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-02T01:34:26.154+0000)
ANY ARMOR REDUCES LIFE STEAL
the scaling armor you champ gets per lvl, the 9 armor u take in runes and any fukin armor item you get in game
Yes but unless you are playing a tank, or you buy a core item that happens to have armor in it like 
you aren't going to get all that much armor to "counter" life steal. So you expect all champions to build some armor to counter life steal even if they are a carry that shouldn't build so much armor?
MR also reduces spell vamp (or it did) on top of it being limited due to CDs and Mana ALSO spell vamp is/was reduced by 1/3 if it was a Aoe or dot add that to the weak amount of spell vamp options that was available in the past...
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesok so we all know that hourglass is one of the most popular items in the game and is built by nearly all mid lane mages also most mages also build what? 
which does what? reduce healing , it has a passive that gives grievous wounds ... now with those to items built on mages would be safe to say they can counter lifesteal ?
[zombie-brand-mindblown]
Dark Nephthys1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KypyAhcY,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-02T01:50:31.287+0000)
ok so we all know that hourglass is one of the most popular items in the game and is built by nearly all mid lane mages also most mages also build what?
[zombie-brand-mindblown]
I'm not saying that Life steal doesn't have counters nor was I ever saying anything that Life steal itself was broken. I'm only saying that Spell vamp was removed which might of been for balance reasons i don't rem but if it was Life steal is so much better and stronger with less conditions and restrictions as spell vamp. I don't think its broken exactly but I do agree that there should be a cap or something.
It just seems weird that Riot would almost completely remove spell vamp (outside of Morgana/Runes/Masteries and technically Gunblade) but then keep life steal and then even increase it some more.
Meep Man2 votesLet's add back Spell Vamp then since we just need to build MR to counter it
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesok
i dont care... but for people to cry over lifesteal and there is no way to beat it or counter it, reduce it or etc is just flat out wrong.
ya know there are items in games that reduce healing ... there are champs who have abilities that does this as well. if you are gonna face a team who would likely build a lot of life steal items which many dont... at best an adc gets 1 lifesteal item either 
or 
which gives 15% and 20% and if they take the mastery in the 1st tree it gives +2% so lets say they have 22% life steal and if they are an issue why wouldnt you have items vs the adc in the 1st place?
see the issue with league is that people want to be able to blindly play and face role buttons and not give any thought or anything to the game they are in at that time and moment to what they need to do to win. they think the should auto win and anything that hinders that is a problem.
stop handicapping league...
NineTailedCharm1 votesok
i dont care... but for people to cry over lifesteal and there is no way to beat it or counter it, reduce it or etc is just flat out wrong.
ya know there are items in games that reduce healing ... there are champs who have abilities that does this as well. if you are gonna face a team who would likely build a lot of life steal items which many dont... at best an adc gets 1 lifesteal item either
see the issue with league is that people want to be able to blindly play and face role buttons and not give any thought or anything to the game they are in at that time and moment to what they need to do to win. they think the should auto win and anything that hinders that is a problem.
stop handicapping league...
Look an adc main here. You cant tell me that lifesteal isnt op. When: lux 24:11 vs vayne 8:19 late game full items Lux gets the adc in full combo, BUT because the adc is in aa range she lifestealf enought not only to survive but to kill her and get to full hp after killing her. The adc has tons of damage per second late game. Comparing it to ap the adc deals his/her damage like almost every 0.3 seconds the same damage that an ap would have to wait 2-10 seconds to deal. More the ap can miss while the adc attack cant be dodged
ImNotGio2 votesWell, Spell Vamp wasn't entirely removed. Morg passive is still Spell Vamp and there's Spell Vamp Quints.
DrCyanide4 votesSpell vamp was removed from items.
Unless you count 
. That still provides spell vamp if you have physical damage spells. Or 
, again healing on physical damage spells...
GankedByWindows2 votesSpellvamp was removed because it didn't really work for how casters work (with noteable exceptions like Vlad and Mordekaiser). Most casters want to go in, burst, and get out while their skills are on cooldown. Spell vamp doesn't do anything for you there. You either got caught and died, or you got your stuff off and got out. It created this weird clash where it doesn't really work unless you stagger your spells which wasn't optimal. Removing it allowed them to balance those that relied on it (Vlad), and didn't really hurt those who didn't need it.
Lifesteal on the other hand goes really well with the patterns people would already do. ADCs want to be constantly autoing, which works well with lifesteal and is synergistic, not clashing like spellvamp did. Lifesteal already is hard to itemize more than one, maybe two items. To get the 45% you state, you have to have Mercurial, BoTRK AND Bloodthirster. That means if you have boots you only have 2 item slots left. Now you have two item slots to get Armor pen and crit.
I'm not against capping lifesteal if they found the right balance, but its not as ridiculous as you make it seem.
ProfDrDeath1 votesAnother point regarding Lifesteal:
It serves as a tool to tie survivability to sustained damage output on champions intended for sustained damage output. Without Lifesteal, ADC would need to be way tankier and thus lose their weaknesses to burst damage and being interrupted in their damage output.
SexyBabyJesusZ1 votesit is annoying when someone like trynd autos u do death and u cant retaliate cause of his lifesteal/ult
:|
LyingOnLine1 votesSpell Vamp was removed for an entirely different reason.
Sir Fuzzi1 votesHonestly just like have it so one lifesteal item. 'Sustain' is a tool, not a build.
EDIT: Wait I just forgot. There IS the option of hitting them with Grievous. Grievous/Armor would actually take care pretty good
DeathBurst1 votesYes you're wrong.
45% Lifesteal means 3 lifesteal item. It means probably only 2 Crit items, only one with AS, and definitely no room in a 6-item build for Armor Penetration. That's most probably a terrible build. There is no need to cap lifesteal, because if you want to stack lifesteal items, there is a meaningful trade-off in doing so.
As far as Spellvamp is concerned, it was removed because it was either good for a couple of champs and terrible for others or decent for most mages and totally abused by a couple others. The exact couple of champions depending on what exact implementation you choose. Spell damage comes in many patterns and tempo, so you cannot make a stat like spell vamp behave in a predictable way. Auto-attack damage on the other hand, is pretty regular and reliable across all champions that use auto-attacks.
XBlyssX1 votesfor everyone saying lifesteal means you can't build other items, i shall counter with "if you build spellvamp, you don't build other items". for those saying lifesteal is fine because it is countered by armor, i say "spellvamp is countered by MR". if your reasons for lifesteal being necessary is so squishy ADC's need it for some sustain, then i will say "squishy mages need spellvamp (and some fucking mana regen items) for sustain". there is NO argument for or against lifesteal that cannot equally apply to spellvamp. having one without the other is unbalanced, pure and simple
