Boards›Gameplay

Udyr's current state

krazanas··3 votes·2,411 views

Why has Riot absolutely forgotten about Udyr? He is not competetibely viable because of mobility creep. He struggles against majority of the champions because of how easy it is to escape from him. Against a decent team he can't do a single gank because you can just outward him. He has been taking a ton of indirect nerfs: celerity, scuttle spawn delay, reduced exp gain from jungle camps, the recent damage ratio on tiger... That's a lot in one season timespan. And instead of compensating for all of these he gets welcomed with a poll of potential champs to rework, and he is not one of them. All 5 champs in the poll had a kit which somewhat works and has it's place. And a champion which literally only walks and basic attacks gets ignored. That is truly unfair to him, to one of the oldest champions in the game. And saying that he recently got a skin is not an argument, this is just a "here, take that and shut up for now", and that's not a good way to solve things

20 Comments

PhearBunny1 votes

Nocturne, Trundle, Leona, and others are right there with Udyr. Sitting in a state of playable, but never a good pick.

Meanwhile they partial rework/buff Garen for no reason Lel.

krazanas1 votes

{quoted}

Nocturne, Trundle, Leona, and others are right there with Udyr. Sitting in a state of playable, but never a good pick.

Meanwhile they partial rework/buff Garen for no reason Lel.

Garen is closer to Udyr's situation than half of the champions you mentioned, but the direction they went is wrong. Interesting, but wrong. Leona's kit is great and her abilities synergise with each other. Trundle is a solid counterpick and a viable pick in high elo and on pro scene. Nocturne is outdated, but still has a kit which works and provides more to the team than Udyr. You mentioned 3 champions which are in a playable state with all of them being seen competitively. Udyr does not see pro play. And he is nowhere near being good.

PhearBunny1 votes

{quoted}

Garen is closer to Udyr's situation than half of the champions you mentioned, but the direction they went is wrong. Interesting, but wrong. Leona's kit is great and her abilities synergise with each other. Trundle is a solid counterpick and a viable pick in high elo and on pro scene. Nocturne is outdated, but still has a kit which works and provides more to the team than Udyr. You mentioned 3 champions which are in a playable state with all of them being seen competitively. Udyr does not see pro play. And he is nowhere near being good.

Honestly as someone who playes Udyr, and all of those champs I listed....Udyr feels like the most playable one to me.(All though he still feels terrible) Nocturne being the worst of them all. Trundle being a niche pick when the stars align, and the enemy team has no tank buster, a pure tank, and your team has a healer. So basically hes never a good pick because those stars are never going to align.

krazanas1 votes

{quoted}

Honestly as someone who playes Udyr, and all of those champs I listed....Udyr feels like the most playable one to me.(All though he still feels terrible) Nocturne being the worst of them all. Trundle being a niche pick when the stars align, and the enemy team has no tank buster, a pure tank, and your team has a healer. So basically hes never a good pick because those stars are never going to align.

Being a niche pick doesn't mean a bad pick. And with the rising popularity of sejuani jg and nautilus support I wouldn't be surprised if trundle started appearing more often. Even tho nocturne is bad atm he still has plenty of ways to utilize his kit to help the team. Pre 6 he has similar issues when it comes to ganks. With his ultimate however he can simply slap whoever he wants and his ult allows him to pressure multiple lanes at once. His ult has insane teamfight impact and considering the fact there is plenty of methods to reduce it's cooldown aid say he is closer to viability that Udyr.

Udyr has much more extremely exploitable weaknesses: his damage doesn't increase after lvl 9; he is forced to build tank and if you don't then anyone will blow you up in mid game because of how squishy you are; he can't build 2 damage items in a row for the same reason; he gets countered with anything with a slow, hard CC makes playing against him even easier; he can't ganking from an unexpected angle, so if you keep an eye on the map he won't be able to ganks whatsoever; no waveclear unless he goes for tiamat, which actually puts him behind; late game it all gets even worse. You literally can't get on someone unless your teammates lock them down for you or you use your flash...

PhearBunny1 votes

{quoted}

Being a niche pick doesn't mean a bad pick. And with the rising popularity of sejuani jg and nautilus support I wouldn't be surprised if trundle started appearing more often. Even tho nocturne is bad atm he still has plenty of ways to utilize his kit to help the team. Pre 6 he has similar issues when it comes to ganks. With his ultimate however he can simply slap whoever he wants and his ult allows him to pressure multiple lanes at once. His ult has insane teamfight impact and considering the fact there is plenty of methods to reduce it's cooldown aid say he is closer to viability that Udyr.

Udyr has much more extremely exploitable weaknesses: his damage doesn't increase after lvl 9; he is forced to build tank and if you don't then anyone will blow you up in mid game because of how squishy you are; he can't build 2 damage items in a row for the same reason; he gets countered with anything with a slow, hard CC makes playing against him even easier; he can't ganking from an unexpected angle, so if you keep an eye on the map he won't be able to ganks whatsoever; no waveclear unless he goes for tiamat, which actually puts him behind; late game it all gets even worse. You literally can't get on someone unless your teammates lock them down for you or you use your flash...

Nocturne has no teamfight impact whatsoever. Which is one of his biggest problems. He isnt strong enough to duel anything so he cant split, he cant assassinate anything besides Ashe and a few support mages. He cant ult into teamfights, he'll just die without doing anything. He either gets lucky and gets fed in the mid game and prays his team can end the game, or he falls off the universe and is useless. Usually its the useless route.

krazanas1 votes

{quoted}

Nocturne has no teamfight impact whatsoever. Which is one of his biggest problems. He isnt strong enough to duel anything so he cant split, he cant assassinate anything besides Ashe and a few support mages. He cant ult into teamfights, he'll just die without doing anything. He either gets lucky and gets fed in the mid game and prays his team can end the game, or he falls off the universe and is useless. Usually its the useless route.

So you say that reducing everyone's vision is not strong enough already? Then maybe you are the one playing him wrong. Going full ape mode and ulting as soon as you spot enemy carry is not the way to go. It's not about being lucky. It's about picking your fights wisely.

PhearBunny1 votes

{quoted}

So you say that reducing everyone's vision is not strong enough already? Then maybe you are the one playing him wrong. Going full ape mode and ulting as soon as you spot enemy carry is not the way to go. It's not about being lucky. It's about picking your fights wisely.

"its about picking your fights wisely" it seems to be going over your head, that Nocturne is so bad, that picking nearly any fight is unwise, unless your team has already won the fight and youre just riding along to clean up a kill.

krazanas1 votes

{quoted}

"its about picking your fights wisely" it seems to be going over your head, that Nocturne is so bad, that picking nearly any fight is unwise, unless your team has already won the fight and youre just riding along to clean up a kill.

It seems to be going over your head that you are not supposed to 1v5 the entire enemy team. Sometimes taking out one target is more than enough. And nocturne can do that. He can also serve as a good counterpick to a few champions. He is still relevant. Not the best, but relevant.

PhearBunny1 votes

{quoted}

It seems to be going over your head that you are not supposed to 1v5 the entire enemy team. Sometimes taking out one target is more than enough. And nocturne can do that. He can also serve as a good counterpick to a few champions. He is still relevant. Not the best, but relevant.

when did i ever say go in 1v5? THE PROBLEM WITH NOCTURNE IS HIS PURPOSE IS TO PUNISH PEOPLE FOR BEING OUT OF POSITION, BUT HE CANT BECAUSE HIS KIT IS OUTDATED AND HE SUCKS. The handful of champions that he can punish for being out of position is so small, and still depends on them actually even being out of position, and anywhere plat or higher, good luck finding people who are so outrageously out of position that a Nocturne can take advantage of them.

krazanas1 votes

{quoted}

when did i ever say go in 1v5? THE PROBLEM WITH NOCTURNE IS HIS PURPOSE IS TO PUNISH PEOPLE FOR BEING OUT OF POSITION, BUT HE CANT BECAUSE HIS KIT IS OUTDATED AND HE SUCKS. The handful of champions that he can punish for being out of position is so small, and still depends on them actually even being out of position, and anywhere plat or higher, good luck finding people who are so outrageously out of position that a Nocturne can take advantage of them.

In play people still make so many and so extreme positioning mistakes that it hurts. And about his kit being outdated, there are champions with much, much older kits and they remain relevant. There also are champs which are in a much worse position than nocturne. The date is not an argument in this case. What can be an argument here is how the kit works and is there a synergy between abilities. In nocturne's case there is. He literally is the middle ground. Not good, but not bad either.

PhearBunny1 votes

{quoted}

In play people still make so many and so extreme positioning mistakes that it hurts. And about his kit being outdated, there are champions with much, much older kits and they remain relevant. There also are champs which are in a much worse position than nocturne. The date is not an argument in this case. What can be an argument here is how the kit works and is there a synergy between abilities. In nocturne's case there is. He literally is the middle ground. Not good, but not bad either.

youre right people do make positioning mistakes in play. but guess what? Nocturne cant punish them for it, because his mechanics havent been able to keep up with all the changes this game has seen. There is a handful of champions he can punish for being out of position. They are all champions that dont see much play, because they also are very bad, and even then youre depending on your enemies to pick these bad champions AND be out of position? good luck rolling those dice

IceFang71 votes

What do you want them to do? Rework him? They’ll probably change a lot of his kit if they do that, and most Udyr players won’t like that.

krazanas2 votes

{quoted}

What do you want them to do? Rework him? They’ll probably change a lot of his kit if they do that, and most Udyr players won’t like that.

Not necessarily a rework, just a buff to let him keep up with other champions. Even something like slow reduction/tenacity on bear, changing movement speed duration on bear to a static value of 3 seconds or adding an HP scaling to his W... Something minor, and not all of these at once ofc. Something to make one of his abilities a one point wonder, because atm if you max one ability the other becomes completely useless...

Jesi Oni1 votes

Udyr is a best in low elo tho... I play him and only him (atm) in jungle and he is stomping everyone and everything. Was playing Evelynn and Elise before and it was MUCH harder for me.

If Riot buff him... All better for me but I hope that attention will not make him weaker 😅

Also... Lets rework phoenix into ultimate!

krazanas1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jesi Oni,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KUJMMkJI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-20T09:57:52.100+0000)

Udyr is a best in low elo tho... I play him and only him (atm) in jungle and he is stomping everyone and everything. Was playing Evelynn and Elise before and it was MUCH harder for me.

If Riot buff him... All better for me but I hope that attention will not make him weaker 😅

Also... Lets rework phoenix into ultimate!

It's not meant to be an insane combat buff. Just a QoL change that lets him scale better (because currently you either have mobility or tankiness, other champs usually have an ability in which they can spend one point and it remains strong for the whole game)

PhearBunny1 votes

Nocturnes saving grace is the same as Udyrs. they are playable, because they are easy to play. mastering them from a microplay perspective takes 20seconds. All the player really needs to focus on is knowing when he can or cannot "go in".

krazanas1 votes

Udyr doesn't have a saving grace. And he literally CAN'T get to melee range. If he managed to get close to you then you simply fucked up. Nocturne doesn't have this issue and he is extremely strong in 1v1's because you can actually afford to build damage and not get screwed up for that. Udyr's damage doesn't increase after lvl 9. The only thing that changes from that point is how tanky he is

PhearBunny1 votes

Youre obviously biased. Nocturne is worse than udyr lol.

krazanas1 votes

He is one of the junglers which can do a full clear in under 3:15 (this is a lvl 4 in comparison to enemy's lvl 3. That's a huge spike). He has fast and healthy clear, can gank from the very beginning of the game and does not have to instantly go back if enemy flashes because of the tether range of his E. He is flexible with his build paths varying from on hit, through lethality to some whack tanky builds. If overbuffed he instantly becomes a pick or ban on pro scene. And that's why he needs to be kept in an equilibrium state. He is not great, not bad either. Just fine. If you think otherwise then you either have no idea what you are talking about, have absolutely no game knowledge, never played Udyr in your entire life or all 3.

krazanas1 votes

Oh, I forgot to mention one thing. Your post about nocturne being bad got a lot of downvotes. That means something.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by krazanas

Gangplank Barrels count as cs [GAMEPLAY]
Report a Bug4 comments
6
votes
Udyr mini-rework idea
Concepts & Creations8 comments
3
votes