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Proposal for Karthus buff

NiDizio··5 votes·842 views

Karthus is a champion who has been at the wayside for far to long. Although he is powerful in his own spooky regards, I believe that he is far outclassed by other mages in the current meta. Here is my proposition to give him a bit more power by making his Death Defied passive a really unique tool.

Passive: Death Defied

This passive change unlocks at level 11. (Included to make his laning phase less hyper-death based)

Upon dying, Karthus essence dissipates. After a short delay or by activating the ability, Karthus reforms at the target location in a medium radius around his death point. ~~Enemy Champions that remain in his Defile for 3.5 seconds (half the duration of his passive) are rooted for 1 second. ~~

I think this buff could really improve Karthus' damage output in mid to late game teamfights. In most cases players would have to build extremely tanky to stay relevant and mobile. With this change they would have the option to build high damage and play more around where and when he dies adding a whole new facet to his pure ecstatic journey through death. Also assassins would have to think about their own journeys before attempting to slay the "The harbinger of oblivion".

What do you guys think? I really like Karthus' concept but I feel like he's a bit lacking in the "undying lich" fantasy. Of course I could be dead wrong so feel free to voice that opinion as well. I'm just hoping to get the ball rolling for giving him a new mechanic to help him out.

11 Comments

axel vazquez1 votes

Nah, Karthus is dead.

NiDizio1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Axel The Lord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K0KT6ZYs,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-03-01T20:26:59.856+0000)

Nah, Karthus is dead.

Yeah I guess you're right, that would be crazy. Almost like an out of body experience.

xl Kirito lx1 votes

That kind of removes his counterplay of, "Kill him over there." Allowing him to reposition in passive is interesting, and might be something worth looking at, but the snare might be a bit extreme.

Besides, forgot to include global laugh when he ults. He really needs that buff.

NiDizio1 votes

[{quoted}](name=xl Kirito lx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K0KT6ZYs,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-01T20:43:09.492+0000)

That kind of removes his counterplay of, "Kill him over there." Allowing him to reposition in passive is interesting, and might be something worth looking at, but the snare might be a bit extreme.

Besides, forgot to include global laugh when he ults. He really needs that buff.

The snare was an afterthought that I included in a spur of the moment. In retrospect I see how it could be way too strong. However a global laugh would be a really nice quality-of-death buff for him.

Power Cosmic1 votes

I think the best short term buff would be shortening the delay on his Q to make it more reliable.

NiDizio2 votes

{quoted}

I think the best short term buff would be shortening the delay on his Q to make it more reliable.

I actually thought a bit about that idea. Unfortunately I think it would be a bit frustrating to deal with on less-mobile champions. Especially when items like Rylai's exist.

Power Cosmic1 votes

A very short reduction, and it's not like Rylai's is free :)

qetzel1 votes

I don't think this is a good idea. Part of the counterplay against Karthus is killing him quickly and then disengaging once he is dead. Giving Karthus mobility after death would remove this, which I do not think is healthy.

For your root idea, an enemy that stays in Karthus' E for 3.5 seconds will have taken an additional 385 + 70% AP plus any Qs Karthus can land (which would probably be several given that you aren't running away... Anybody you would really want to root would be dead by then (provided your team aren't awful. 385+70% AP +Qs is not a small amount. It also isn't thematically relevant, or useful if the enemy knows anything about Karthus - it is stray power that Arthus has no real power over.

If Karthus were to be buffed, there are better things to change. His late game teamfighting is actually pretty strong even now - helping him get there more easily would be better.

NiDizio1 votes

{quoted}

I don't think this is a good idea. Part of the counterplay against Karthus is killing him quickly and then disengaging once he is dead. Giving Karthus mobility after death would remove this, which I do not think is healthy.

For your root idea, an enemy that stays in Karthus' E for 3.5 seconds will have taken an additional 385 + 70% AP plus any Qs Karthus can land (which would probably be several given that you aren't running away... Anybody you would really want to root would be dead by then (provided your team aren't awful. 385+70% AP +Qs is not a small amount. It also isn't thematically relevant, or useful if the enemy knows anything about Karthus - it is stray power that Arthus has no real power over.

If Karthus were to be buffed, there are better things to change. His late game teamfighting is actually pretty strong even now - helping him get there more easily would be better.

I actually agree with you on most of your points. The root was a bad idea, I acknowledge that. Also I definitely agree that there are probably better options. I also don't think I clearly expressed the amount of mobility after death. The intended purpose for the idea was to give a recently blown up Karthus a second to recuperate and get a slight range advantage to further disengage teamfights. Although it could still be a bit too strong of a buff. If you get any good ideas I'd love to hear them.

blackcat13001 votes

I don't think this is a good idea. Part of the counterplay against Karthus is killing him quickly and then disengaging once he is dead. Giving Karthus mobility after death would remove this, which I do not think is healthy.

For your root idea, an enemy that stays in Karthus' E for 3.5 seconds will have taken an additional 385 + 70% AP plus any Qs Karthus can land (which would probably be several given that you aren't running away... Anybody you would really want to root would be dead by then (provided your team aren't awful. 385+70% AP +Qs is not a small amount. It also isn't thematically relevant, or useful if the enemy knows anything about Karthus - it is stray power that Arthus has no real power over.

If Karthus were to be buffed, there are better things to change. His late game teamfighting is actually pretty strong even now - helping him get there more easily would be better.

defile has a 20% ap, ratio it has never been 70%. Defile at max level only deals 110 damage per second unless it is rapidly toggled.

Karthus Q deals 120 at max plus 30% ap so a Q would only deal 240 + (60%ap) witch is considerably less damage then what you put.

blackcat13001 votes

" this is another idea i had posted a wile back for a Karthus update.

Karthus is missing something to make up for certain falls in the mid game. So I would like the to add a stacking passive to defiled. Passive each kill give you a stack, max 5, each stack gives 1,2,3,4,5 per cent spell vamp Active when toggle on defiled he gets bonus % of ability power to all abilities you toggle off defile. You then loose all stacks and you loose all stacks at the end of death defied.

I think this would be a nice revamp to an old champ and would allow him to return to the pro seen. I would help to prevent early game magic resist shut down and help give karthus back some damage. I would increase his skill cap suitability and would not make him over powered. with max stacks and having defiled on you can have 55%/75% Q 55% E and 75% R This could be redused to only 0.5, 1, 2, 3, 4 Q. I know the ult seems op but late game if it doesn't kill someone life steel usually negate the damage.

I would also like to see 2,4,6,8,5 spellvamp per-stack and 1,2,3,4,5% bonus ap to all ablities. Since you only gain stackes when defile is toggled off and loos all stacks when toggled from on to off, this max for a fun mechanic.

Max stack 200ap change lv 1-5 Wall 5%=10 10%=20 15%=30 25%=50 Defile 25%=50 30%=60 35%=70 40%=80 45%=90 Lay waist 35%=70 40%=80 45%=90 50%=10 55%=110 Lay Waist single target and ult 65%=130 70%=140 75%=150 80%=160 85%=170

Max stack 1070ap change from lv 1-5 Wall 5%=535 10%=107 15%=160 25%=267 Defile 25%=267 30%=321 35%=375 40%=428 45%=482 Lay waist 35%=375 40%=428 45%=482 50%=535 55%=588 Lay waist single target and ult 65%=695 70%=749 75%=803 80%=856 85%=909 %ap could be change to .5,1,2,3,4

Or they could add DFG's effect to his wall of pain and give it an area of affect that if an enemy champion would dash, flash, or tp in the area of the wall excluding Warwick ult they would instantly get teleported in to the wall and stunned for 1.5 sec.

Similar to how Poppy has a wall that stops the dash this one redirects you in to the wall giving Karthus more depth. I could even be renamed Torn Vale of Eternity

You know he is warping the space between life and death thus DFG's effect on wall would make seance as would the warping effects on dashes and tp's."

**You could also have Karthus's Q deal double damage to large jungle mobs and champs in aoe and triple damage to single target large jungle mobs and champions. ** This would keep his laning faze in check but also make those single target Q's and damage to champions more satisfying.

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