The Illusion of Assasins.

TyrekGoldenspear··7 votes·1,132 views

Ask anybody who mains mid which champs they hate to lane against, and you will get a variety of responses, but 90% of the time it will be a melee assassin.

Oftentimes we ban these champs, but when one slips through the cracks, we midlaners often prepare ourselves for a loss.

This is what the assassin wants. They know they have a crappy early game compared to you, and they know they have to hit lvl 6 as soon as possible to become a threat.

But we mid liners often times feel that they are gods all the time.

Take this scenario.

Brand lanes against Zed.

Brand knows what Zed can do, he fears getting deleted. He stays far away from Zed and farms with his abilities, and generally leaves Zed alone.

Zed farms up no problem, rushes hexdrinker and Yomuus, and when he hits 6 deletes Brand.

From here on Brand feels there is nothing he could have done and proceeds to be tilted for the rest of the match, and vows to permaban this broken champ.

But what of instead Brand took the offensive? What if he harrased Zed every chance he got, even with autos. What if he bullied Zed away from CS and forced him to farm under tower?

Zed gets put behind. Brand can buy some good items. His team is happy because Zed is able to be dealt with now that he is underfed killwise.

Melee assassins depend a lot on our fears of them to have a peaceful leaning phase, so dont give them one my fellow mage players.

Make their laning phase heck, force them to farm under tower. (Ward properly of course to avoid ganks.)

Put them as far behind as you can and then carry your team through midgame to victory before they can catch up.

Respect their damage once they get their mobility spell, which for most of then is their ult. Disrespecting their damage will get you killed, and help them catch up again.

38 Comments

Aptest4 votes

You have some mistakes in your analysis. generally melees have some holes in their laning that ranges can explot:

whether it is long range mages that can AFK shove and harass (Xerath, Ziggs), or medium range juggernauts that have some way of fighting assassins on more than even ground (swain, vladimir).

the problem starts when the assassins roam, specifically to bottom lane, and hit on targets that lack (a) base stats, (b) levels (c) mobility (d) ability to counter-itemize.

The people who cry about assassins are mostly ADC players who feel like they lack tools, and support players who both lack items and would prefer not to just defend the ADC all the time.

mid laners, for the most part, can deal with assassins in their lane. they just roam a lot worse because less mobility and lose because of extra gold the assassins pick up on bottom lane.

i think most mid laners prefer to play assassins than mid / long range mages. Assassins provide an intense, interactive play style with kill pressure that goes both ways. AFK-offscreen-farm champions just don't offer this king of entertaining experience.

EDIT: which is what new "mages" like aurelian sol and taliah are providing. Good ranged waveclear, and a good as or better roam speed.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Hey thanks for filling in the holes.

Personally I would rather lane against an assassin because I know how to keep them under control and shove the lane hard and ping when they roam.

Aptest1 votes

this brings me to a second point.

if an assassin roams, is scouted (you mid laners should reallly ward up bottom of your lane in a way that also detects roams) and the bot lane backs off, even though you gained some gold on the assassin, the bot lane still lost CS.

if you AFK in mid lane and do not "convert" the gold you got to something, a roam, successful or not, translates into some loss for your bottom lane (unless they jump on the roamer and nuke him ofc, i did that a bunch of times tee-hee). which can snowball into a dragon or a tower or lost jungle camps.

(btw 2 jungle camps stolen are approx worth a kill)

so don't sit on your ass doing nothing on your tower. Get something done. I don't care what. But something.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Usually I try to knock down their tower but I see your point.

Requiemsfire1 votes

The thing is if the assassin isn't really benefitting from the roam and risks essentially becoming useless and even risking damage to the turret which mid. They aren't just losing gold, they are losing experience and levels. Odds are the bottom laners won't lose so much farm that it would really impact them if they did back off unless the assassin just stayed there in a warded brush for ages which is a really dumb thing to do when you're losing exp and gold at the same time with your opposing midlaner shoving.

Penns1 votes

Assassins (at leats Fizz, I dont really play other assassins mid) cant roam if his enemy laner just pushes mid all the time tho unless he wants to lose farm and his tower. The bot lane might lose some cs by backing off once they see Fizz roaming, but he is gonna lose way more.

Basically all you need to do to win as mid lane mage is survive lane and push, which is why assassins are kind of bad atm imo.

Aptest1 votes

If my game plan is to get the kills bot and make the support and jungler strong than i only care about my tower if it is the first to fall.

otherwise a simple failed gank attempt or waveclear from the jungler buys me enough time to have my way with bottom lane.

Penns1 votes

Thats what I meant, you probably risk losing tower first blood by roaming early-mid game, especially if the enemy jungler helps his mid laner get it.

But its not just that, I feel like most melee assassins lack so many things compared to these meta mages. All they really get is mobility and for that they sacrifice wave clear, range/poke, good cc, utility,... And with thunderlords mages oneshot stuff anyway, why would you really play an assassin?

Aptest1 votes

What must be understood is that Assassins and Mages are not working with the same play book. Mages generally want to become a focal point that their team can play around. Assassins want other players to be the focal point and for them to be the hammer that closes in the play.

That is a completely different outlook on the game and as consequence the risk-reward curves are also different. Losing tower first blood?

as for "why play an assassin"? it is the same reason the sniper rifle is contested in shooters. You get to come in last, have other players tank the risks, whereas you do the killing.

hell if you have to be the one wave-clearing, you're gonna be the one initiated on.

Penns1 votes

Well mages can probably do the killing just as well while also being able to do the wave clearing and all that stuff (which is kind of what a mid laner is supposed to do). And worlds picks/soloq stats kind of show that ranged mages are.. better. But the assassin rework is coming soon(tm) anyway, so well see how that goes.

Elite4Runner2 votes

This isn't exactly a new concept, however a skilled Zed can still shred an early game Brand if he makes one mistake.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Which is why as a Brand I play aggressive from the start and make farming a pain for him.

Vanic9982 votes

Assassins are balanced.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

Im just mad since Zed oneshot me lvl 6 with just a Dirk -_-

Also don't tell me assassins have weak laning, Diana player here. My Q does the equivalent of your combo + an auto. And it's more spammable. And I'm grabbing the casters with it at the same time.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

{quoted}

Im just mad since Zed oneshot me lvl 6 with just a Dirk -_-

Also don't tell me assassins have weak laning, Diana player here. My Q does the equivalent of your combo + an auto. And it's more spammable. And I'm grabbing the casters with it at the same time.

Diana's Q does not do as much damage as a single Brand W, much less his full combo plus an auto attack.

Same with a Lux E, a Twisted Fate Q, an Ahri Q, a Ziggs Q, or a Xerath Q.

Diana's Q is not an overtly strong spell. The scaling is okay but the base damage is pretty poor.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Diana's Q does not do as much damage as a single Brand W, much less his full combo plus an auto attack.

Same with a Lux E, a Twisted Fate Q, an Ahri Q, a Ziggs Q, or a Xerath Q.

Diana's Q is not an overtly strong spell. The scaling is okay but the base damage is pretty poor.

Huh.

You're right. I didn't expect that, from my experience. After all, I'm usually chunking out 1/5 of a mage's health with my Q while losing slight more in return from whatever they threw at me. Then I throw another Q 5 seconds later and they get out damaged.

This is strange.

Maximum Morde2 votes

{quoted}

But what of instead Brand took the offensive? What if he harrased Zed every chance he got, even with autos. What if he bullied Zed away from CS and forced him to farm under tower?

I can think of several outcomes, none of which are a true win scenario without the assassin player being a massive idiot and handing an early lead to his opponent.

  1. He is successful, but the assassin player isn't a brain dead moron and knows how to last hit under turret just fine, so doesn't really miss much.

  2. He opens himself up for easy ganking by being pushed too hard, and often being low mana with his spells on cooldown from attempting to harass. The enemy jungle shows up for the free food.

  3. He goes out of mana, gets shoved into his turret, then Zed would roam bot and pick up a double kill.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Not if you use your mana smartly silly.

If I play it right Zed will run out of health before I run out of mana. :P

Maximum Morde1 votes

Depends on starting items, champion, and whether the opposing player didn't use a proper rune page going into you. It can be very difficult early game for certain champions. Others don't have to worry so much.

Saianna2 votes

But what of instead Brand took the offensive? What if he harrased Zed every chance he got, even with autos. What if he bullied Zed away from CS and forced him to farm under tower?

That's good only on paper. All depends on Zeds skill. Game from 2 years ago: I was thrown in MID (even when I said I'm simply bad at it). Picked my "safest" champion I'm best at: Teemo. Ofc there was enemy Zed. I did what Teemo is the best at. Q-AA-run'away. And even though I chunked him good it was still not enough to tilt him. What's worse his goddamn shurikens did just as much damage as my combo in early game.

"you just have to dodge" arguamens. Meh. I'm not a robot nor Asian.

Anyways, we were biting each other untill he hit level 6. With hexdrinker. I became useless. Even with all that effing poking him. But why would you say: his goddamn shurikens and passive. That's why. This champion is alot more flexible than Zac. If you think you found a way to shut him down, then nope there goes some wtf AP Zed build and wrecks your face for no goddamn reason and you don;t know what happend.


That game even though I won (don;t rememebr how)... Anyways from that moment I knew on thing: I won't sleep well as long as Zed is viable posterboy champion with shitton of excuses of unbalanced shit just to make him more shiny.

Worst part.. Second year and I still hadn't had a good sleep :/

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Well good thing Zed has been nerfed since the last two years. :3

His Q doesn't do as much damage. He has to land both to do similar damage.

jgwentworth961 votes

Except that a pre-six zed combo with his shadow and double shuriken and thunderlords proc deals over half your health from surprisingly long range. The problem with zed is hes good at everything no that hes just really good at lvl 6.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Personally I find it easy to bait his Q and dodge it, then return the favor with my harass.

He isn't good at long range the second he misses his Q.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Stupid question: How he proc Thunderlords with 2 shurikens?

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Stupid question: How he proc Thunderlords with 2 shurikens?

Spin I guess 0_o

TequilaZombie1 votes

Let's be honest, if you're standing close enough to a Zed that his Shadow can touch you, you deserve the thunderlords proc.

Requiemsfire1 votes

Honestly if I was playing Brand against Zed I would probably mop the floor with them depending on how good they are at staying alive till 6. Otherwise you farm up, stay even in gold and exp, don't fall behind and when you first back, don't buy an AP item, buy a HP item or even a item 3191 if you can. Grab item 2009/item 2031 on your first back and be very mindful of Zed's shadow placement and his range.

Take either summoner 3 or summoner 21

Another thing to note is that if you're paying attention, never let yourself into a position where he will land two Q's on you at the same time.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

I wipe the floor with him as well, especially of they try something stupid like all in me with my exhaust up.

Sustain wins the lane.

Omijingu1 votes

THats what assassins are made for, learn to play against them and everything will be fine.

Ralanr1 votes

Whenever I lose to Yasuo, it's usually because I let him free farm whenever his tornado is up for fear of getting knocked up. Even pre six I don't like it. But you're right, I should be harassing those kinds of champions since they do have a weaker early.

Hovering Hentai1 votes

If you're having trouble fighting assassins in the laning phase -

Pick Lissandra

She does everything right to win against assassins.

Her passive makes her far less reliant on the blue buff for lane sustain

Her Q is a rapid skillshot that can be used to hit several low health minions at once and since it passes through minions can be used for lethal harass on melee opponents

Her w locks divers in place shutting down the mobility that is VITAL for assassins to use to outplay and with clever timing and positioning can lock them in place for a turret shot... maybe even two.

Her e is amazing for her survival. Pushing the wave to the assassins tower leaves you in the most vulnerable spot for a gank - the answer to that? A long range blink to get you back to safety. And even better once you've done your harass and an assassin is trying to escape you teleport on and burst him down.

Her ult.... her ult is an assassins nightmare for so many reasons let's look at ulting herself. Assassins focus on single target burst and Lissandra's Frozen Tomb is a Zhonyas Hourglass in a spell THAT DOES DAMAGE AND.... HEALS HER! This spell is the exact counter to Zed's death mark making her untargetable and invulnerable AND leaving behind a large slowing field that does damage as it expands.

Now the second half - a targeted stun. In teamfights this will lock down, single out a diving assassin and will leave him busted down by your whole team.

Lissandra is leagues anti assassin and despite how many assassins roam midlane she can beat then all. If you're having trouble fighting assassins I implore you to try her.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

I will.

I already play Brand , so playing Lissandra as well will be a nice parallel.

Hovering Hentai1 votes

Good luck

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

in the brand scenario zed will shit on brand.

if you really want to counter assassins its better not to sugarcoat it for most champs.

How would you like to take your hard knocks. The problem with many players vs assassins is that they are afraid to take a hit and when they finally do they are afraid to leave lane or even lose lane. Same with adcs. If you take an adc mid I swear the other player will try and chump you out

every fucking time

and you will shit on them most of the time just because that's stupid to do considering how strong adcs can be in such a situation. Up till level 6 as a midlaner against an adc a lot of times you will not be winning but you will powerspike harder midgame unless you try to chump them out which will cost you everything.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

I've beaten up Zeds as Brand. Several times.

The Deckowner1 votes

melee assassin? I think ranged assassin like leblanc is 10 times worse, I would rather face 10 zed than 1 leblanc.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Oh god don't bring back the memories...

Stars Shaper1 votes

Mages can't go all out on the early stages because of mana and still being vulnerable to ganks and the opponent itself.

Zed level 3 has already the same poke and waveclear of a Xerath (while also having an easier time to farm with his passive).

Talon punishes any kind of push.

Fizz just can't be hit if he has some brain and has inbuilt grevious wound.

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