An actual balanced nerf idea for Vayne.

Knalxz··1 votes·381 views

Make it so Condemn (her E knockback into walls ability) roots instead of stuns. If she is still powerful then remove the Silver Bolt proc on it.

The last part takes away her Auto, Roll, Fade Away true damage, allowing players to retaliate, making a Vanye think twice about just walking up and shooting them in the face some more. The thought process is, "If you're impaled into a wall, you're not going anywhere." Yeah you're right, you're not going anywhere but that doesn't mean you can't fight back. When has Van Helsing ever impaled a vampire and that was it? Those things will spit, claw and even just rip out the bolt to get back into the fight. So even the thematic vision of the ability is a little...off.

The first part is something that there is very little reason for an ADC to have. Easy access hard CC. The problem with Condemn is, no matter what, if Vayne is being agressed upon, condemn instantly puts her in a better spot. It just isn't right for an ADC like her to be given easily accessible hard CC. Maybe when she was first released it was a a harder ability to manage but since then far more difficult champions have come to the scene. She can Either stun you or knock you back. It's an auto target spell so it's going to happen sooner or later.

Let's put it into perspective. Let's look at the ADC's with easily accessible Hard CC.

Draven Very low mobility, short duration knockback for assisting in managing his axes or other general CC reliant task. Has very limited speed boost. Which isn't used for escaping or engaging but management of axes. Ashe Known as the ADCC. Her ultimate is a rather instant stun but an ultimate. Rather large cooldown for a stun, granted it's global but it also can't be a level 1 ability. Unlike Draven Ashe has no one to get into a fight so her ult is as much of a way to start a fight as it is to keep fighting. Tristana A champion primarily hated because she has so much, safety and damage wit high mobility and a massive knockback. Sort of like...vayne. But unlike Vayne, Trist has no CC pre 6 and her ults cooldown is much longer then Vayne's condemn. Quinn Has a knockback that throws her into the the enemy team. With her ultimate she has pretty good mobility, but her hard CC puts her in more danger than ever other ADC in the game. It can be easily countered but it has a pretty great reward.

So all of these ADC's have the same issue. Their hard CC either has a large cooldown, is used for their lack of mobility and/or they can't use it early on.

Vayne has mobility, Hard CC and large amounts of damage. Wall or not her Condemn is helping her universally. Ashe can miss her ult, Draven can't go anywhere and Quinn can be easily countered when her hard CC is used. The only one who is safe is Tristana who, like I said is hated for her safety, but her CC isn't. She's very illusive for an ADC and giving her easily accessible hard CC is just something Riot should give her that also applies true damage.

I hope this thread was atleast slightly convincing because, I believe nerfing Vayne's attack speed or true damage isn't the solution it's just her ability to shot you without you being able to do anything that is a problem.

A few people might say that I'm just a Vayne main trying to protect my cheese, but I'm not. You can see in my profile that I don't even own her. the only time I've ever played her was when I first saw her on free week and to try and get a better understanding of her so I can fight her better. As someone who is always fighting a Vanye, this is the adjustment I think she needs to still be a pick but not over powered.

5 Comments

67chrome1 votes

Make it so Condemn (her E knockback into walls ability) roots instead of stuns. If she is still powerful then remove the Silver Bolt proc on it.

You have to Condemn someone into a wall to stun them, which 50% of the time sends them flying into shrubbery. The knocback is also generally more advantageous to hostile ranged champions vs. Vayne than not, as all of them can strike further than 550 range and Vayne cannot. I'm not sure allowing Ryze and Annie to always win vs. Vayne and turn her into paste is a good idea.

Also - nerffing the optimal use scinario of Vayne's only real skillshot strikes me as a really odd place to hit a champion. If anything, she should get a really high reward for that. Most marksman would probably be better off with skills like Condemn that really stress how important positioning is to the champion.


From what I've seen of Vayne Q_Q threads? The thing that stands out with her current power that shouldn't is her lanning phase got stronger than it really should be.

Easiest way to hit that? Mana costs. Mana costs make a surprising world of difference early by slowing down the rate at which you can use skills. As-is Vayne has one of the lowest mana pools in the game but almost feels like a manaless champion, more so than any other marksman I've played, due to Tumble just not doing a lot to her pool.

This way - Vayne still gets to be Vayne. Her skills still do exactly the same thing, you don't have to adapt to them being altered in some significant way. You just get to use them less often early and have to get a few levels before you can really start using your kit.

Knalxz1 votes

Sorry for the miscom but the point of me talking about her condemn putting her in a better spot when someone is agressing on her, is two points.

  1. No matter what they are further way from her so she can escape if needed. (or roll into range)
  2. They are stunned.

One of these two things will always happen to someone who gets condemned unless they have a spell shield. It wasn't a point to say it hurts her offensively it was to say defensively she condemn is a plus no matter what.

On the note of mana costs, while I do agree with you that mana costs are an effective way to keep champions early game weak in the case of Vanye that doesn't work. Her active abilities are situational. Vanye can go through her entire laning phase wit her support stunning and getting her in and out of fights. She only ever uses her actives to go in or retreat. Maybe her Auto, Roll harass will slow down but only slightly. Since, like i said, she'll just wait for those moments to go in or retreat like she does already.

That's why I don't see her mana nerf as viable and looking at the downvotes of this thread I can see alot of Vayne Mains tearing up a bit from the idea, which, is good, in a way. Vayne isn't gutted from this idea just told to hold up a second.

I also don't see the attack speed nerf meaning anything because, her roll and Condemn both give her extra damage and a proc of silver bolts.

So nerf her utility since nerfing her attack and defense would gut her, is my way of thinking here.

67chrome1 votes

On the note of mana costs, while I do agree with you that mana costs are an effective way to keep champions early game weak in the case of Vanye that doesn't work.

Yes, yes it does. I've played Vayne a fairly considerable amount of times. Mana nerfs and buffs are the easiest thing to feel on her - and change her from Tumbling whenever it's useful to trade/evade/last-hit to restricting Tumble usage.

Her active abilities are situational.

Tumble is as far removed from a situational ability as you can get.

I'm also getting the distinct impression you haven't played Vayne much. Vayne tumbling in lane is pretty similar to Riven or Karthus using Q.

Tumble is a very useful skill for a wide range of uses. Offensive and Defensive, both at once in several cases. You can frequently use it to evade or reposition outside of just going in or out.

I also don't see the attack speed nerf meaning anything because, her roll and Condemn both give her extra damage and a proc of silver bolts.

AS nerf also doesn't do diddly sqaut to her early game, that's specifically late-game when she will wreck faces regarldess of having 10% less than before. Is kind of wierd Riot bumped her to the highest AS per level tier though.

So nerf her utility since nerfing her attack and defense would gut her, is my way of thinking here.

Nerffing her mana costs nerfs her utility. Condemn costs a fair bit of mana as-is.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

Nerf AS per lvl, make her passive + 10/20/30 ms , so she can actually have harder time to get kills early by chasing and ksing her team.

Knalxz1 votes

but Vanye's early problem isn't her ability to chase, her early problems are her items.

More from Gameplay

More by Knalxz