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concept of a second support using the jungler position

3TWarrior··1 votes·518 views

I've been wondering about it, but, what if a second support such as zilean or bard were in bottom lane with the original support, now making it where the opposing adc will be starved for gold

Supports tend to be very gold efficient (hence why they play bottom lane with the marksman), but this support would have lasting repercussions on the match

The benefits I have thought of so far are as such:

  1. opposing marksman is underfed and/or forced to farm under turret
  2. the second support is not forced to stay in lane and can roam as needed while providing more utility than a traditional jungler
  3. Quite a few supports can manage this secondary support position

The disadvantages I can think of so far

  1. unless the support is zilean, the opponents will gradually gain more experience than you at the cost of gold (if they are not sitting in front of a grey screen)
  2. supports tend to be less mobile than traditional junglers and will require teleport for efficient lane roaming
  3. The opposing jungler may be able to take advantage of the absence of a proper jungler, but this is potentially offset with the pressure the second support can place on the bottom lane

So, I want to know what people think of the idea ^^

10 Comments

LostFr0st1 votes

But then your ADC and Supp would be starved of EXP, which is far more valuable.

3TWarrior1 votes

how much xp loss does this result in? if the opposing laner can not function in lane, theoretically, the drop is the same but you come out with a gold advantage

With Zilean, xp loss becomes very little

LostFr0st1 votes

You'd need to get an extreme advantage before lvl 6.

If the enemy has a brain, even if they get almost no cs, they still come out ahead since it means their jg/top have free reign on the exp that is now free in at least your top-side jg, if not your whole Jg.

Then, with the exp advantage, they also crush your midlaner, which means 2 lanes+"Jg" lost, so the game is basically over since base stats gains are very strong (free dmg, cds, etc.).

Again, that strat may work at lower elos, but anyone who has been playing for a few years shouldn't fall for it.

3TWarrior1 votes

can you give a definitive number for a compare and contrast?

A second support in bottom lane would have the advantage of gold efficiency, damage and crowd control. The Teleport spell can allow for pressure on multiple lanes and then there are extra wards for vision control and no defined champion type for support except by what is known and efficient(kill lane, mage, a combination there of and tank)

Didn't riot also recently change the jungle so that champions without machete will not see much benefit from going to the jungle unless it is of desperation? Although the jungler could take advantage of this opening, said jungler would also be spending more time farming and less time interfering in other lanes

A red or blue buff could make a difference, but this is a theoretical idea for how to take advantage of some of the problems in the current design of league

LostFr0st1 votes

{quoted}

can you give a definitive number for a compare and contrast?

I'm not sure there's understanding here between us. There IS no number; depends on the matchup.

A second support in bottom lane would have the advantage of gold efficiency, damage and crowd control.

EXP HAS a gold value - and that value is hella high. This post is old but still relatively valid: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=305392

The Teleport spell can allow for pressure on multiple lanes

TP has too long of a channel time, and due to not having a Jg there will be no one in position to place the deep wards which would be necessary.

In addition, if one of your solo laners pushed out for the wards, they SHOULD be immediately ganked since the enemy will just be walking between his/your topside jg except to grab his botside buff. He'll only be botside post-6 to punish the EXP waste with his ult for free kills.

and then there are extra wards for vision control and no defined champion type for support except by what is known and efficient(kill lane, mage, a combination there of and tank)

If the solo lanes end up behind, there won't be much for the support to buff. The team will be lacking in dmg and presence in fights.

Didn't riot also recently change the jungle so that champions without machete will not see much benefit from going to the jungle unless it is of desperation?

The most recent change was to remove the ranged disadvantage when killing Jg creeps. The spawn timers is what now prevents them from starting at a camp.

Although the jungler could take advantage of this opening, said jungler would also be spending more time farming and less time interfering in other lanes

Not necessarily. This makes their job easier since they don't have to cross behind tier 1 mid and they are now always 8-10 seconds (less with mobis) from the two lanes they need to dedicate their time to. This makes their job easier, not harder.

A red or blue buff could make a difference, but this is a theoretical idea for how to take advantage of some of the problems in the current design of league

Then I think the first step should be to outline the problem being solved first, instead of the solution.

The benefits in the OP are not solid enough to cement such a shift, and I'm not quite sure what problem they are solving?:

1.opposing marksman is underfed and/or forced to farm under turret

Farming under turret is actually a blessing since it often gives gank immunity. 3 people make the lane push harder which means less minions die to the other minions before reaching the turret. That means free farm.

2.the second support is not forced to stay in lane and can roam as needed while providing more utility than a traditional jungler

Taking a utility Jg solves this.

3.Quite a few supports can manage this secondary support position

Basically "because we can" - hmm.

If one could outline the problem being tackled/solved I could try to be of more help.

jadelink1 votes

If you want a second support , you send Nunu or Ivern to jg, and you can have them visit regularly if you have a mind to.

3TWarrior1 votes

although a good suggestion, nunu's primary purpose is to starve the opposing jungler by taking their camps while providing aid where he can

with only one ranged ability, he does not serve well for attacking bottom lane, though he can use his ultimate under turret

he also has no hard crowd control

SwiftKitten881 votes

Ivern ???

3TWarrior1 votes

I don't actually know much about ivern, unfortunately

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