DBZ explains why individual climbing and matchmaking is bad

BoIa strike·Oct 19, 2019·12 votes·9,700 views

You are better than the elo you are in, you want to climb. Sayians in Namek Arc explain this very well.

You = Frieza Low Elo = Namek Saga

You are playing the game, with confidence that you are going to win, but feeders? "hurr durr feeders exist in your team and the ennemy team not just your team"

Ally feeder = Vegeta Ennemy feeder = Goku

Goku and Vegeta fight and beat each other up a few times. They get stronger.

Before you know it : https://i.imgur.com/bBQpcsg.gif[/img]

Now Goku is strong enough to take down Frieza despite being weaker to begin with. Same thing happens when feeders feed off each other. and your individual impact is reduced to oblivion.

If your lane opponnent decides to play safe and farm, or build full defence and you have feeders on both teams, you are screwed.

45 Comments

JamareeOct 19, 20198 votes

Doesn't your opponent have to deal with that as well. So if you are both dealing with feeders and they are able to carry and you can't, doesn't that mean they are better then you?

Edit: Now that I think about it, doesn't this analogy kind of fall apart in the grand scheme of things because if Frieza decided to use his massive power over the other Z fighters at the start instead of wasting his time gloating at how much stronger he was, ie, using his advantage to end the game, he wouldn't have given Goku the time to get his several Zenkai boost.

Seriously, Frieza could have went to each village, quickly get the dragonball, not waste time trying to boost his ego and KDA, gotten the balls, then dipped before Goku had time to get there, or even Krillin and Gohan had he not gloated, gotten his scouters blown up, continued to waste time after he got the new scouters from the Ginyus, continued to waste MORE time fighting a person going average instead of getting the dragonballs (fighting Nail instead of you know...doing what he planned to do, AS WELL as bothering to follow him for like an hour, ie being baited into a chase), and then waste even MORE time not using his full strength and then again wasting even MORE time not immediately killing the Z Fighters who he was clearly stronger then by playing around more BEFORE KILLING HIMSELF in the end.

So are you saying that you waste time not ending the game to instead pad your KDA and boost your ego?

LanceTheMightyOct 19, 20191 votes

If your laner is building full tank / playing safe and not allowing you to kill them, and your team is feeding in other lanes, there really isnt anything you can do to win. If you get fed yourself you can carry but not when you are forced to go even in lane kills wise.

JamareeOct 19, 20196 votes

{quoted}

If your laner is building full tank / playing safe and not allowing you to kill them, and your team is feeding in other lanes, there really isnt anything you can do to win. If you get fed yourself you can carry but not when you are forced to go even in lane kills wise.

If they are playing safe and not allowing themselves to die, then they also aren't making plays to kill you correct, also, if that is the case, what is stopping you from doing the same thing to once again carry if both of you have feeders? Why does their feeder not count and only yours does?

LanceTheMightyOct 19, 20191 votes

Since neither of the feeders or the people getting fed are in your lane it's just RNG at that point. Are they good enough to carry and are they playing good champs to carry?

JamareeOct 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Since neither of the feeders or the people getting fed are in your lane it's just RNG at that point. Are they good enough to carry and are they playing good champs to carry?

I mean...yeah, that is kind of the risk you run when queueing with randoms?

LanceTheMightyOct 19, 20191 votes

So the games just chance, okay thanks for telling me.

Sightless66Oct 19, 20191 votes

No, games have factorw based on chance. However, you are a consistent element. If you are consistently better than the average level of play you are at, you will win more often and climb.

There will he some games you can't lose no matter how bad you are. There will also be some games you can't win no matter how good you are. However, you can be an influence in the remaining games.

Buff Gangplank69Oct 20, 20191 votes

personnaly im g4 and i think every enemy i lane against is complete garbage and i win lane nearly everytime with out jungler interactions, but when that 15--0-6 warwicks starts camping top and 10 minutes, there really isnt much to be done.

and this isnt one game, its nearly all of them.

also this isnt my main account, i can link u if u really need to know.

Sightless66Oct 20, 20191 votes

personnaly im g4 and i think every enemy i lane against is complete garbage and i win lane nearly everytime with out jungler interactions,

Humans aren't very good at self-assessing themselves. I have a feeling that if your performance was actually analyzed, you'd preform about as well as your teammates in most games.

JamareeOct 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So the games just chance, okay thanks for telling me.

If you are playing with randoms, yeah, there are going to layers of chance, how would there not be?

The only thing that can remain constant is you.

SaezioOct 19, 20191 votes

In this meta you can easily kill anyone BEFORE they have bought a single item. You can kill at levels 2-3-4-5 easily with how high damage is

LanceTheMightyOct 19, 20191 votes

This is just is absolutely not true unless your opponent doesnt know how to play the game. Or gets dived which rarely happens pre6.

dead men waIkingOct 19, 20191 votes

high damage goes both ways lol, tell me how you can kill : a malzahar just perma pushing and farming with E and staying behind? a vlad building defensive items and just sustain farming what he can get even missing cs. a mundo building full tank and just farming with his Q. a gankplank farming with barels.

those are just a few examples.

SkycrowxOct 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If your laner is building full tank / playing safe and not allowing you to kill them, and your team is feeding in other lanes, there really isnt anything you can do to win. If you get fed yourself you can carry but not when you are forced to go even in lane kills wise.

If they play save, it's a sign that they are under pressure. So learn to get advantages without killing your enemy. How about learning how to create a freeze? How about proper warding, how about roaming? You shouldnt loose anything if ur laner is forced to play save vs you, while you itself have freedoom and choices that you can make without getting punished in the least.

it sounds harsh, but you just don't know how to get leads when it isn't being done by killing a enemy laner. I was in the same spot in the past when i was a low platinum player. Today i'm high Diamond and peaked master 130Lp. If someone plays save against me, i'm getting at least a 30-50cs lead in 12-13 min alone without any killing

Crescent DuskOct 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If your laner is building full tank / playing safe and not allowing you to kill them, and your team is feeding in other lanes, there really isnt anything you can do to win. If you get fed yourself you can carry but not when you are forced to go even in lane kills wise.

Even if you get fed, it depends heavily on what champion you get fed on.

There's a reason they plan to buff top lane. Usually the game outcome is decided by which bot lane gets fed unless we have something like a fed Riven/Fiora/Irelia or in the case of jg a fed Yi.

There is no beating around the bush the fact that one lane out of four has 2 people getting ahead and this has an inordinate impact on the outcome of the game.

ﬂooOct 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't your opponent have to deal with that as well. So if you are both dealing with feeders and they are able to carry and you can't, doesn't that mean they are better then you?

Edit: Now that I think about it, doesn't this analogy kind of fall apart in the grand scheme of things because if Frieza decided to use his massive power over the other Z fighters at the start instead of wasting his time gloating at how much stronger he was, ie, using his advantage to end the game, he wouldn't have given Goku the time to get his several Zenkai boost.

Seriously, Frieza could have went to each village, quickly get the dragonball, not waste time trying to boost his ego and KDA, gotten the balls, then dipped before Goku had time to get there, or even Krillin and Gohan had he not gloated, gotten his scouters blown up, continued to waste time after he got the new scouters from the Ginyus, continued to waste MORE time fighting a person going average instead of getting the dragonballs (fighting Nail instead of you know...doing what he planned to do, AS WELL as bothering to follow him for like an hour, ie being baited into a chase), and then waste even MORE time not using his full strength and then again wasting even MORE time not immediately killing the Z Fighters who he was clearly stronger then by playing around more BEFORE KILLING HIMSELF in the end.

So are you saying that you waste time not ending the game to instead pad your KDA and boost your ego?

No it's only the worst feeders always in the team of the complaining person. And it's always someone else on their team who did the wrong.

JamareeOct 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No it's only the worst feeders always in the team of the complaining person. And it's always someone else on their team who did the wrong.

Yeah, I noticed that. Apparently, no one here EVER has it where the feeder, troll, or afk is on the opponent team.

dead men waIkingOct 19, 20191 votes

You are missing the point, the feeders are on MY TEAM and the enemy team. it's not about who gets feeders, it's about both teams getting feeders and reducing individual impact.

JamareeOct 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=dead men waIking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J2UF0Ojz,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T14:34:19.379+0000)

You are missing the point, the feeders are on MY TEAM and the enemy team. it's not about who gets feeders, it's about both teams getting feeders and reducing individual impact.

We all feed fam.

dead men waIkingOct 19, 20191 votes

You are diving too much into the details of the analogy and missing the actual point.

the point is it's hard for me and my opponent to climb, not just me.

Of course i will climb. but it will be a slower, bad experience. no one has to play an absurd ammount of games to beat the variance to get to their true elo. this is not poker.

F1uttershy2075Oct 19, 20191 votes

Well the difference in Feeders is who gets fed.

A fed Goku > A Fed Vegeta

doesn't matter how fed Vegeta gets in the end A fed Goku will trump because Goku has more impact in the fight then a Fed Vegeta.

JamareeOct 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Well the difference in Feeders is who gets fed.

A fed Goku > A Fed Vegeta

doesn't matter how fed Vegeta gets in the end A fed Goku will trump because Goku has more impact in the fight then a Fed Vegeta.

Well, as Frieza, why didn't you end before Goku got fed?

AmelieaOct 19, 20194 votes

This is actually the perfect analogy. You think you are better than everyone and look down on others, and due to your hubris get beaten by actually hard working individuals who focus on improving over gloating how great you are.

dead men waIkingOct 19, 20192 votes

We are talking about a scenario where you have feeders in your team, so obviously you are better than them, i don't see how you fail to see that. "hard working" is just RNG playing in your favour and getting the equally feeding agro player in your lane. actually the other laner can just straight up AFK farm behind their turret and you would still lose if another laner decided to keep dying as fast as they respawn. there is no improving, you don't chose which enemy you are up against, its all RNG, if you get 4 feeders BOTLANE, you will be outscaled by both ally botlane et enemy botlane, thus reducing your individual impact.

Pika FoxOct 19, 20194 votes

So what youre saying is..... The only way youd lose is to be cocky and not take it seriously from the start, then killing yourself at the end?

I mean, frieza could kill goku at any moment while hes feeding.

dead men waIkingOct 19, 20191 votes

No, frieza and goku fought the first time they met, frieza didnt even know about goku before.

Pika FoxOct 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=dead men waIking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J2UF0Ojz,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-10-19T14:48:39.382+0000)

No, frieza and goku fought the first time they met, frieza didnt even know about goku before.

In which he could have easily and instantly killed goku had he taken the fight seriously. Even before then, he could have easily killed everyone on the planet had he taken all of them seriously, and then that would be it. No threats to stop him.

BoIa strikeOct 19, 20191 votes

Yes but of course it won't happen, because it will not further the plot. so that's beside the point.

HoldMyPlankOct 19, 20193 votes

Goku and Vegeta fight and beat each other off a few times.

Can you be more specific? Asking for a friend.

dead men waIkingOct 19, 20191 votes

Super saiyan power has it so that, when you get beat, you get stronger. goku and vegeta fought initially on episode 24 of DBZ and both got insanely stronger.

Douglas FunnieOct 19, 20192 votes

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. So, you're saying:

If I'm an offensive player and both teams have feeders but the enemy team has defensive players, I will lose? However, I will somehow miraculously become Goku, heal up in the Rejuvenation Chamber and become stronger just in time to win the game, yet still lose because there's feeders on the enemy team because there's also feeders on my team?

dead men waIkingOct 19, 20191 votes

Not miraculously, if you trade kills with an opponent you both get fed. to illustrate i will give you an extreme example :

you are vayne adc vs caitlyn, for the sake of the argument you are both equally matched, you trade kills every time you comeback to lane. both of you have 4 completed items, when the laning phase is over my individual impact is completely lost, and i have to rely on the fed vayne to do all the work because she is the only one who can stop the fed caitlyn that can two shot you with all the lead.

ArtumisPrimeOct 19, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=BoIa strike,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J2UF0Ojz,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-19T06:01:47.407+0000)

Goku and Vegeta beat each other off a few times.

lol

BoIa strikeOct 19, 20191 votes

Goku and vegeta batteled in ep 24 and 224 so i don't know what's lol about that.

EedatOct 19, 20192 votes

Goku and Vegeta beat each other ~~off~~ up a few times.

beating off means jerking off/masturbating. Beating up is what you're looking for

BoIa strikeOct 19, 20191 votes

From Longman Dictionary of Contemporary Englishbeat off phrasal verb1 beat somebody/something ↔ off to succeed in defeating someone who is attacking, opposing, or competing with you.

Not everyone lives in the US.

G0blinSlay3rOct 19, 20191 votes

"pyke wearing a funnel on his head" huh sorry could not hear your screams of suffering

Jesi OniOct 19, 20191 votes

Frieza should finish the game instead of flaming and trolling.

EedatOct 19, 20191 votes

I mean if Frieza didn't fuck around he could have slaughtered all the Z fighters easily. Literally the only reason they won was plot armor

Imagine being this delusional that you think this actually makes sense. It's absolutely fucking insane the lengths people will go to blame anything but themselves.

I think y'all need to get your shit together because people, if anything, are creatures of habit and you are really, really fucking yourself hard in life by allowing yourself to get into this habit. The habit of deflection instead of being self critical and working on improvement. Sure, sometimes you get dealt a shitty hand but you need to figure out a way to work through it and not collapse and find a scapegoat

BoIa strikeOct 19, 20193 votes

imagine being so blind as to ignore the impact of 4 other people in TEAM game and blaming only yourslef.

i mean if you do that more power to you, but i'm just gonna be actually rational and think cause and effect, instead of this self guilt bs.

EedatOct 19, 20191 votes

So incredibly delusional.

One game isn't what ranked is about in this game. You have 4 randoms on your team and 5 on the other. The difference in your skill vs the average skill level in the ELO you are currently in is how much impact you have over the match. If you are actually "OmG sO mUcH bEtTeR tHaN tHiS eLo" then you will have far higher impact and win far more games than lose. Not all of them, like I said sometimes you get a shitty hand.

But this is PROVEN over and over and over and over again by high ELO smurfs absolutely fucking stomping through low ELO with 90%+ win rates. Thousands upon thousand of examples all show this to be true. Find me one example of a Diamond+ player not trolling and actually getting hardstuck in silver. ONE. Hell, ratIRL had a smurf earlier this season where he didn't lose one single game until mid/high diamond ELO

Yes, as you approach your true ELO this will slow down as your skill level gets closer and closer to the average of your ELO so you could float around a division. Contrary to popular belief, Riot doesn't go around fixing matches against single players. It's mathematically completely impossible. The shitstomps that occur are a result of people being inconsistent. A player can go 10/0 one match and 0/5 the next. This is why a bit of a grind is necessary but by this point you're already close to your true ELO anyway

Jeddy017Oct 19, 20191 votes

"Elo levels are bullshit."

Bronze Vegeta playing Yasuo.

Posui GartOct 19, 20191 votes

And what were you(the non-feeder) doing all the time? Ok, you couldn't kill your lane opponent because he played ultra safe. You can roam to the lane with those 2 feeders and kill the enemy. Because of your lane opponent being forced into defence, your jungler now can counterjungle easier or take objectives Or you can just farm more minions and build an advantage with that

You can't guarantee winning 100% games, but if you are stuck at same elo for 100+ games, you probably don't play that much better then everyone else there

Buff Gangplank69Oct 20, 20191 votes

this but in my games the part where enemies feed doesnt happen and im left with a team tahts 0 19 and im sitting here thinking im winning lane with 20 farm lead, like fuck this