My Exact Face After Reading 6.3 PBE Changes

ayee I see what you did there

So, why did you not make use of canceling out her healing, then? It is not like Thornmail is there to cause the enemy to kill himself...

Let's say you're a tank with 90 base Armor. Meaning, 210 bonus Armor. Thornmail damage equals 52.5 + 0.15 X, where X is the incoming damage before resistances.

Without using her Q, Ashe has a DPA of 872.6 (BT/MS/RF/IE/BG/LDR), with 32% Life Steal.

You'll take 285.6 damage per attack. Ashe heals for 91.4. Your Thornmail deals 52.5 + 130.9 = 183.4 damage. Accounting for roughly 100 MR (probably less in reality), you deal 91.7 damage to Ashe per attack.

As you can see, the maths says that you completely cancel Ashe's Lifesteal out.

Now, as said, Thornmail is not there to make you impenetrable to the enemy ADC, nor to make him kill himself on attacking you. Rather, it is an item with a purpose, which it also serves well: To deny the enemy their heal against you, so you can proceed to kill them if you hit them.

Well, the logic of building tanky is that someone else does the damage while you watch their back.

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IH7E4ONE,comment-id=000200020000,timestamp=2016-01-28T15:50:15.648+0000)

nope. still shit. last whisper is 500 gold cheaper than thornmail. there goes the slot efficiency. both in stats and the passive which is so weak its not even funny.

i rather invest my gold into dead mans, randuins, steraks or just another damage item.

if a defensive item doesnt actually help you survive, then there is no point in it.

it was a good item on garen with the 20% resistance bonus on w, due to instantly giving 120 armor. plus 10% on that with the mastery last season actually got it up to 132 armor upon purchasing it.

its terrible now. getting armor pen fast is easier than before and it lost 25 armor very early on for garen with the nerfed unyielding mastery.

health + armor is always more effective than just armor. the only reason to get thornmail this season would have been its passive if it hadnt been nerfed.

Armor counters armor penetration. That's why armor penetration is an assassin stat now. Yes, Last Whisper makes Thornmail pretty bad, but you don't build armor to survive against ADCs, you build armor to survive against assassins, fighters and juggernauts, who, guess what, don't build Last Whisper!

That's the issue Thornmail has. People see the passive and think it defends against autos when Randuin's does that much better. Thornmail cuts so much away from abilities like Jarvan's Q and Riven's ultimate that deal high burst.

Not sure why you're getting downvoted so hard. It's true, in most cases now the lifesteal outweighs the damage dealt from the Tmail passive, so you might as well get a different armor item. Maybe one with cooldown? Or health? Or something other than literally just armor? it's great on champions with taunts or armor scaling, outside of that it's just not what it used to be.

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IH7E4ONE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-28T13:37:31.865+0000)

they said as a jugg item its not bought much over its alternative dead mans and randuins.

not that this will change anything about that. its still 800 gold for a waveclear passive. and most ad bruisers dont need additional waveclear.

since the aura nerf to level scaling its not worth as a rushed duelling item anymore.

That's a good point. The items system really should get a big overhaul at some point. Clear cut items for certain style of play. I just like the extra burn if I'm already next to them doing damage, more damage never hurts. But people now a days going tanks have no reason not to get a dead mans plate, it's the best of the worst armor item and now they have changed that as well. Not sure what they plan on doing.